Metro Penalty Fare Notice

geordieracer

macthemountie wrote: »

Sorry i have not been on for a while. I have been watching my daughter 24/7 to make sure she does not do anything else wrong. Taffy and a few others have some commonsense, you obviously do not.

It is obvious from the comments on here that we all know kids (except you and grumpy santa) will hide the truth to avoid getting into further trouble with their parents. This does not mean this is the correct attitude to have but guess what, it is your typical teenager these days.

A point you are choosing to ignore is that the only person who knows for sure whether my daughter actually bought a ticket is my daughter. FULL STOP.
That is unless you have psychic powers and if so, please tell me this weeks Euro lottery numbers so i can afford to pay the admin fee of £30.

For the record, I have sent off the £20 fine. They can whistle dixy for the admin fee. A computerised letter with a scanned signature, placed into an enveloped and sent out with the rest of the post cost £30. KMA.

I would rather see them in court and I will, even if it costs 10 times that. I will explain why to you because being a man of little intelligence and a brainwashed opinion will not understand this.

I believe in standing up for peoples rights especially against the bully boy companies who blatantly abuse their positions in authority and even use kids to rip off adults anyway they see fit?

It is very simple, your rules are unfair and need to be changed. Only if to allow unsuspectiing parents to be aware of their childrens actions and have the ability to pay the fine, appeal within the 21 days or say tough and then face the consequences.

To say your comapny rules do not have to inform parents about an issued fare notice sums up the contempt you treat people with. The real reason why you do not admit this is because you know it will make you look unreasonable and unfair in the eyes of the British public. Or you are just plain dumb.

It does not matter which, except if you were to change the rules several things would happen.

1. It would restore some public trust in the transport system that is sadly lacking through uncaring attitudes such as your own.

2. Your income revenue from late payment admin fees would drop dramatically.

HMMMMMMMMMM. Hard one that isn't it?

I am not bothered what your rules are, only that they are unfair on parents of minors and for the record my daughter is old enough to be travelling on metros with her friend, as long as she has bought a ticket.

On this occasion she could not produce a valid ticket when challenged. Whether a £20 fine is fair or not is not an issue it is the ruls. I have never questioned the fact she has incurred a £20 fine and this has been paid. It is how they wait until after the 21 days to slap on the £30 admin fee that i disagree with.

If they automatically wrote out to the parents they would remove any doubt on whether the parents had the opportunity to pay the fine within the 21 days to avoid the admin fee of £30. Or is that to simple and would lose them revenue?

Thanks to all of the others who have posted helpful comments previously.

CHEERS ME DEARS!!!:T

Again Im sorry you did not like my advice. It is the right advice and im not a jumped up jobsworth or an angry railway man who has an uncaring attitude. The facts are that the railway loses millions of pounds each year through fare evasion. That is why we have the penalty fare scheme. This scheme has been in place for over 30 years and only the wording has changed so much as the railway has changed from state owned too a franchise ownership. We are not bully boy companies we are companies who are trying to offer a service for a price. When people take that service without paying the price we are fully governed by Law to try and retrieve that money through the penalty fare scheme.

Over these 30 years there have been many prosecutions for people who have evaded paying the penalty fare and they have ended up in court and lost. There is also the possibility of prison for this offence.

We do not directly get the income from the late fees admin charge - the company who deal with the penalty fares IFPAS take a large chunk of that money from us to cover the charges of chasing it up. You say they wait 21 days - how long do you think they should wait? Most people actually pay the penalty fare immediately and avoid this charge - those that dont get invoiced again for a further penalty. This is fair and fully enforceable in a court of law.

Im sorry you have found to your cost that the rules and bylaws of the railway are not to your liking.

bigturnip

geordieracer wrote: »

We do not directly get the income from the late fees admin charge - the company who deal with the penalty fares IFPAS take a large chunk of that money from us to cover the charges of chasing it up. You say they wait 21 days - how long do you think they should wait? Most people actually pay the penalty fare immediately and avoid this charge - those that dont get invoiced again for a further penalty. This is fair and fully enforceable in a court of law.

That is all very fair if you are dealing with one responsible adult from start to finish, but the rail company have moved the goalposts, by switching their attention from the child to the parents. They can't have it both ways saying the child is responsible for themselves and then when they don't get their money decide that the parents are responsible, either the child is responsible from start to finish and the parents shouldn't be involved or the parents are responsible and should be involved every step of the way.

I have ignored the rest of your post in the quote as it is irrelevant and talks about the penalty fare, which nobody has a problem with, the OP has already paid it and agrees that she should have done.

By the way their are two factual errors in the part of your post I have quoted, firstly this is not a further penalty, this is an admin fee. Secondly it is not enforceable in court, if the train company wants to go to court they must drop the penalty charge and take the accused to court under the relevant law.

dizzybuff

Hadeon wrote: »

You appear to have entirely missed the intended point & message behind my post; the clue is in the phrase 'that in principle'.
I happen to be more than well acquainted with the law governing police practice & procedures relating to their dealings with juveniles/young persons thank-you.

lOst th:ps tread really dont care :P

ashleypride

macthemountie wrote: »

On this occasion she could not produce a valid ticket when challenged. Whether a £20 fine is fair or not is not an issue it is the ruls. I have never questioned the fact she has incurred a £20 fine and this has been paid. It is how they wait until after the 21 days to slap on the £30 admin fee that i disagree with.

Well said, I find it so annoying that some people on this thread have completely missed the point and keep bleating on about the penalty fare, whether or not you are a good parent, and whether or not your daughter paid. Still, it's nice to see somebody challenge an obviously broken system.

(And to the person who said they thought £30 was reasonable, to print, frank and post a computer generated admin letter.... :rotfl:)

macthemountie

geordieracer wrote: »

Again Im sorry you did not like my advice. It is the right advice and im not a jumped up jobsworth or an angry railway man who has an uncaring attitude. The facts are that the railway loses millions of pounds each year through fare evasion. That is why we have the penalty fare scheme. This scheme has been in place for over 30 years and only the wording has changed so much as the railway has changed from state owned too a franchise ownership. We are not bully boy companies we are companies who are trying to offer a service for a price. When people take that service without paying the price we are fully governed by Law to try and retrieve that money through the penalty fare scheme.

Over these 30 years there have been many prosecutions for people who have evaded paying the penalty fare and they have ended up in court and lost. There is also the possibility of prison for this offence.

Really. I thought this was a civil offence and not criminal? Any so called firm that would be prepared if they could, take a minor to court for a so called £30 rip off admin fee deserve all of the contempt that comes their way. See you in court!!! :mad:

We do not directly get the income from the late fees admin charge - the company who deal with the penalty fares IFPAS take a large chunk of that money from us to cover the charges of chasing it up. You say they wait 21 days - how long do you think they should wait? Most people actually pay the penalty fare immediately and avoid this charge - those that dont get invoiced again for a further penalty. This is fair and fully enforceable in a court of law.

Absolutely no waiting at all. They should send out the invoice for the £20 penalty immediately so it alerts the parents to have the time to choose on whether to pay the fine, appeal or say no I am not paying it.

Im sorry you have found to your cost that the rules and bylaws of the railway are not to your liking.

I have found the rules to be just like you. Way out of date and completely brainwashed into repeating yourself and totally missing the point time and time again. I have paid the £20 penalty fine and have got no intentions of paying their rip off added on fees.

Oh by the way they wrote back to me saying the total amount had now gone up to £75 as a final demand. They forgot to mention in their last letter that if you did not pay the £50 within any timescale that further costs would be added. Guess they just forgot to include that though didn't they.

So please do not hide behind your so called dickensian by-laws, or is that why you operate like that noble robber !!!!!! Turpin. At least he had the decency to wear a mask. :eek:

taffy056

Best of luck with that, really this needs to be looked into, its unfair that the first contact you have from them is a letter with a souped up admin fee, also who are they asking money from, you or your daughter ? I would tell them to take your daughter to the small claims court, really they asked for the penalty fare to be paid, it was paid as soon as you found out about it, they will struggle imo to justify an admin fee of this amount, its an unfair condition,

geordieracer

macthemountie wrote: »

I have found the rules to be just like you. Way out of date and completely brainwashed into repeating yourself and totally missing the point time and time again. I have paid the £20 penalty fine and have got no intentions of paying their rip off added on fees.

Oh by the way they wrote back to me saying the total amount had now gone up to £75 as a final demand. They forgot to mention in their last letter that if you did not pay the £50 within any timescale that further costs would be added. Guess they just forgot to include that though didn't they.

So please do not hide behind your so called dickensian by-laws, or is that why you operate like that noble robber !!!!!! Turpin. At least he had the decency to wear a mask. :eek:

I don't hide behind any Dickensian laws - these have only come around in the last 20 - 30 years so unless dickens was around in the 80s then your comebacks are worse then polio.

so £75. pay it or go to court is what they are saying.. If i were you actually looking for money saving advice then id pay it. Because i seem to be repeating myself by stating that the railway companies very very very very rarely lose this sort of case.

And yes i know you think i have missed the point, but i haven't - i get it. Your daughter dodged paying her fare and now you have to pay for it. Its quite plainly obvious

geordieracer

macthemountie wrote: »

Absolutely no waiting at all. They should send out the invoice for the £20 penalty immediately so it alerts the parents to have the time to choose on whether to pay the fine, appeal or say no I am not paying it. :eek:

Well in case it passed your pretty little empty head by - the penalty fare and notice of it was already given to your daughter on a nice bit of paper that quite clearly states what you can do to appeal or pay and the consequences that will happen if you don't..:rotfl::T

Bashy

geordieracer wrote: »

I don't hide behind any Dickensian laws - these have only come around in the last 20 - 30 years so unless dickens was around in the 80s then your comebacks are worse then polio.

so £75. pay it or go to court is what they are saying.. If i were you actually looking for money saving advice then id pay it. Because i seem to be repeating myself by stating that the railway companies very very very very rarely lose this sort of case.

And yes i know you think i have missed the point, but i haven't - i get it. Your daughter dodged paying her fare and now you have to pay for it. Its quite plainly obvious

Yeah talk about 2 faced and the court will see that, Fine the daughter go for the daughter not the parents, If you had hit the parents first then that would have been ok

And going how pleased you seam to be in your post its looks more like your panicking

geordieracer

Bashy wrote: »

Yeah talk about 2 faced and the court will see that, Fine the daughter go for the daughter not the parents, If you had hit the parents first then that would have been ok

And going how pleased you seam to be in your post its looks more like your panicking

Im not panicking at all. I see things like this every day. I lot my ticket/I dont know where it is , so on and so forth...

As i have stated so many times in here that i must have nubby fingers from typing - she will not win in court.

Is that too much for you all to realise?