Metro Penalty Fare Notice

taffy056

geordieracer wrote: »

Im not panicking at all. I see things like this every day. I lot my ticket/I dont know where it is , so on and so forth...

As i have stated so many times in here that i must have nubby fingers from typing - she will not win in court.

Is that too much for you all to realise?

Well the penalty fare has been paid, if this goes to court she has evey chance to win as the admin costs are unenforceable, also there is no notice on the letter she had to increase the costs by over 200% should she not pay the admin costs.

Now whoever takes her to court must justify the full costs of the admin fee , and on demand they must break down the admin fee, also who are they demanding money from? The parents weren't the ones who didn't have a ticket, so are they going to take a child to the small claims for an unenforceable admin fee?

taffy056

geordieracer wrote: »

Well in case it passed your pretty little empty head by - the penalty fare and notice of it was already given to your daughter on a nice bit of paper that quite clearly states what you can do to appeal or pay and the consequences that will happen if you don't..:rotfl::T

In case it passed your empty head, they gave the notice to a minor, expecting a minor to act as an adult is a ploy to increase profits, the penalty fare has been paid as soon as the parent learned about it, and they will have to take the child to court as they were expecting the child to deal with it in the first place, best of luck with that, as the child is without an income, how will a judgement on an uneforceable admin fee will be paid is beyond me.

Finally can a contract between a child and company be enforced, doesn't the child need to be an adult for such a contract to implied ?

Hadeon

taffy056 wrote: »

Well the penalty fare has been paid, if this goes to court she has evey chance to win as the admin costs are unenforceable, also there is no notice on the letter she had to increase the costs by over 200% should she not pay the admin costs.

Now whoever takes her to court must justify the full costs of the admin fee , and on demand they must break down the admin fee, also who are they demanding money from? The parents weren't the ones who didn't have a ticket, so are they going to take a child to the small claims for an unenforceable admin fee?

Agreed; the parents have no personal liabilty here. As for taking a 15 year old to the small claims court for the remaining alleged civil debt concerning the admin costs, I really don't think so.

Still, only time will tell the final outcome of this debacle.

macthemountie, please keep us appraised of developments & 'good-luck', although I don't think you will need it.

bigturnip

geordieracer wrote: »

And yes i know you think i have missed the point, but i haven't - i get it. Your daughter dodged paying her fare and now you have to pay for it. Its quite plainly obvious

But you clearly have missed the point, because this isn't the point, the fare dodging/ticket losing isn't the point, the inclusion of an admin fee and failing to inform the parents at the beginning are the points that people have a problem with.

I don't really have a problem with an admin fee if the ticket was given to a responsible adult and they chose to ignore it, I do have a problem with the train company trying to recoup an admin fee from somebody who has had no prior involvement in the incident. If the parents are responsible for the fine by virtue of being the parents then it is only fair that they are given the same timescale in which to pay/appeal the fine as anybody else who has been issued a fine.

WickedWolfie

macthemountie

In one way I admire your attitude BUT I strongly suggest you look at the two links and even consider seeking advice there - it looks like you will be absolutely clobbered in court AND your daughter could pick up a criminal record.....

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?161-Public-transport-(Trains-tubes-and-buses)

http://www.railforums.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=105

WickedWolfie

Further to my last a possibly contrary view.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_fare

geordieracer

taffy056 wrote: »

Well the penalty fare has been paid, if this goes to court she has evey chance to win as the admin costs are unenforceable, also there is no notice on the letter she had to increase the costs by over 200% should she not pay the admin costs.

Now whoever takes her to court must justify the full costs of the admin fee , and on demand they must break down the admin fee, also who are they demanding money from? The parents weren't the ones who didn't have a ticket, so are they going to take a child to the small claims for an unenforceable admin fee?

Again your wrong. The penalty fare was not paid on time which is 21 days. they will get taken to court and have to pay the extra costs.

Do i have to keep repeating myself here until you understand that her lovely darling daughter who does no wrong is over the age of criminal responsibility and has been judged to failed to produce a ticket for her journey.

Now that it has progressed her lovely beautiful mother has now been informed by way of a letter informing her of further actions.

Enforceable by law.

NOT ONE THING YOU SAY WILL CHANGE THIS.

taffy056

geordieracer wrote: »

Again your wrong. The penalty fare was not paid on time which is 21 days. they will get taken to court and have to pay the extra costs.

Do i have to keep repeating myself here until you understand that her lovely darling daughter who does no wrong is over the age of criminal responsibility and has been judged to failed to produce a ticket for her journey.

Now that it has progressed her lovely beautiful mother has now been informed by way of a letter informing her of further actions.

Enforceable by law.

NOT ONE THING YOU SAY WILL CHANGE THIS.

You are the one putting words in peoples mouths - yet again !

We are not saying she didn't do wrong, what we are saying the system is wrong in the way they have done this, and as its not a criminal offence but a civil one, you are incorrect, and as the extra costs as you put are unenforceable they would be hard pressed to prosecute a child in the small claims!

Also as the lady not been informed of said penalty until a grossly inflated admin fee has been added they will struggle to justify a fee that has increased by 200% between letters without notice.

Really you are defending a system that takes advantage of children, its a disgrace and should be changed , the reason you don't agree is simply that your company makes money out of it, and you earn commission on a broken system!

Livingthedream

Geordieracer, whilst I understand and agree with what you have said, the only part I have got an issue with is that I can't remember seeing anywhere amongst the railway acts/bylaws that state 'an admin charge is enforceable'

I may have missed this and are more than happy to be corrected, but if the bylaws don't support this, then it becomes a civil debt, which could easily be challenged in court.

geordieracer

taffy056 wrote: »

You are the one putting words in peoples mouths - yet again !

We are not saying she didn't do wrong, what we are saying the system is wrong in the way they have done this, and as its not a criminal offence but a civil one, you are incorrect, and as the extra costs as you put are unenforceable they would be hard pressed to prosecute a child in the small claims!

Also as the lady not been informed of said penalty until a grossly inflated admin fee has been added they will struggle to justify a fee that has increased by 200% between letters without notice.

Really you are defending a system that takes advantage of children, its a disgrace and should be changed , the reason you don't agree is simply that your company makes money out of it, and you earn commission on a broken system!

My company makes money out of delivering a safe and secure and on time services to London. if people choose to abuse that then they should be penalised should they not?

Her daughter messed up and i think in my first reply to this thread i stated that they should pay up. they have tried not too by trying to use some flimsy wording that they got off here about car parking tickets.

i understand the fact that she is 15 but i also understand that as the darling lovely does no wrong daughter tried to hide the fine that she quite legally incurred it now goes to those who may try and claim responsibility for.

Its not my fault - If the OP had taken my advice in post 2 we still would not be here 2 weeks later discussing it.

Im sorry some of you seem to think this dishonesty by her daughter is acceptable but maybe now you will see that we have to protect our revenue somehow.

We provide a service and its not for free.