A Disabled Charity And A PPC

Coupon-mad

Yes, of course that would be discrimination.

The facilities of a private disabled bay or any other 'reasonable adjustments' provided under the DDA are for the use of all disabled people (not just from Europe and not just those with Blue Badges and not just those with mobility problems).

I do hope Mobilise are still looking at this website. IMHO your name is being brought into disrepute with this 'business association', let alone the small matter of the DDA breach allegations against PPCs.

I will be emailing Mobilise again shortly (you ignored my fist contact Mobilise, so you'll be getting another from me). I'm the person who used to run a Disability Advice Centre and sent you a long email pointing out why it's foolish for you to associate yourselves with a private company whose agenda is simply to make money from people parking to use a retail site. A company who have been reported - on several occasions I could link here - to 'allegedly' issue tickets to disabled people and refuse to cancel them.

trisontana

This is the email I was told to use by Mobilise after I was banned from communicating with Helen Dolphin directly :- enquiries@mobilise.info

trisontana

Yet another example of the way the "ethical" UKCPs acts towards tyhe disabled. This is taken from another thread on this forum:-
I was 'presented' with a Parking Notice Charge...for 'parking' my vehicle in a disabled bay outside Curry's in New Mersey Retail Park (recently) so I could take my disabled daughter into the store for her to view and decide upon a purchase. (so far so good)
To my mind...(considered sane) the accurate and visible display of her current and lawful blue badge was sufficient, therefore, 'ONLY' the badge was displayed NOT the timer clock (as would be used when parking on yellow markings etc on the roadside.)
YET....When we emerged from the store we were gifted a PARKING NOTICE CHARGE from UKCPS Ltd - Our Crime (vehemently denied) was to have parked in a disabled bay with NO Badge displayed!?!

I rang the Police who were extremely understanding....But unable to help as they have no involvement unless it can be proven that this 'FIRM' UKCPS Ltd are acting unlawfully... hmmm

I am stressed by this and has taken my attention from more important and vital issues in my life.

What on Earth is going on with 'stuff' that is allowed in our Country for the sake of GET RICH QUICK SCHEMES?

I will not relent...This type of money making schemes should be outlawed.
Many vulnerable Law Abiding People would panic and Pay - this CANNOT be right

I have forwarded this on to Mobilise asking for their comments. I'm not holding my breath though. Well over a week ago I emailed them asking why they seem to be encouraging supermarkets to break the DDA by urging them to penalise people who do not display blue badges in their disabled spaces. As yet there as been a deafening silence from them. Come on Mobilise, if you are reading this, it would be nice of you to give your side of the story.

Coupon-mad

Well I emailed mobilise on a rarely-used email account and have just looked and have just seen that I got a reply when I was away. I think this is their 'sort of official reply' on the subject as they've asked me to publish it in full if I post it on an internet forum.

Here you go, my original email paragraphs are in blue below which they quoted as shown. I will copy & paste this onto pepipoo forums as well and if anyone wants to link it to CAG (which I rarely go on) or other interested forums then please do.

I won't comment in the interests of fairness, but please email Mobilise with what you all think and you should get a reply in 48 hours. They are claiming it's only me and trisontana who have emailed them so far:





Dear Mrs xxxx (person otherwise known as Coupon-mad :cool:),

Thank you for your email. We will address the points that you have made separately.

'I contacted you before but got no reply.'

We’re afraid we don’t know what happened there. Apologies if it was an error at our end. We aim to answer all emails within 48 hours.

'I was until recently a Manager at a Disability Advice Centre and have a good opinion of mobilise. But I am shocked to see you taken in by a private parking company, UKCPS. This association is bringing your charity's name into disrepute and some internet forum posters are thinking of reporting the allegiance to the Charities Commission.'

We are well aware that there are problems within the private parking sector but it is only by working with organisations like UKCPS that we have any chance of improving the situation for disabled people. One of our reasons for working with these companies is because we are able to help educate them and their staff on Blue Badge and disability issues. It is not just UKCPS we work with but also MET parking, Q-park and Town and City parking to name but a few. One of the many activities our Information Officers carry out is helping members appeal parking tickets and since these companies have become corporate members this task has become considerably easier, as they are more able to understand why disabled people took longer or parked across two bays etc.

It is your opinion that it is not good for Mobilise to associate with these organisations. But by working with them, we have a real opportunity to improve their services for the benefit of people with disabilities.

I’d also like you to be aware that Mobilise does not receive any payment from UKCPS for issuing PCNs. All we do is charge them a corporate membership fee that gains them access to our information services and provides them with copies of our magazines.

We read a small number of the posts on the MSE forum but we believe it is not the place for Mobilise to try and have an open and frank discussion about our involvement with parking companies. You may be interested to know that it is only you and one other person who has actually written to Mobilise to express their views about Mobilise working with UKCPS. Should anyone else write to us then we would try to answer their concerns as best we can.

Forming allegiances with parking companies with the aim of improving their treatment of people with disabilities is not, in our opinion, any breach of guidance set out by the Charities Commission.

'Putting a sign up in a car park does NOT form an enforceable contract. If the sign said 'disabled bays are for those with mobility aids only' it would be illegal under the DDA. It is the same for signs which say 'disabled bays are for Blue Badge holders only' partly because the BB scheme doesn't apply on private land and partly because the DDA makes it clear what the definition of disability is - and as you know it's much more than mobility issues or having a Blue Badge'

Over 99% of private car parks require Blue Badges to be displayed in the accessible bays as evidence of a disability. This scheme, as I’m sure you know, covers not only wheelchair users and people with mobility problems but also people with visual impairments and those with a double upper limb disability to name but a few. Of course there are many more disabled people compared to Blue Badge holders but in a parking situation the car park would not have to provide an accessible bay for someone whose disability did not affect their ability to get to their destination, ie disabilities recognised by the Blue Badge scheme. For example, someone with a hearing impairment would not qualify for a Blue Badge, would not require an accessible bay and the parking company would not have to provide one for them. However, they may need to consider having alternative methods of communication if barrier type access was installed. Different disabilities need different provisions.

We understand your argument that the Blue Badge scheme is for on-street and Local Authority (LA) car parks, but it has been adopted by the private car park industry. The Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) also says providers have to do what is “reasonable” and we think most people would agree that using the same scheme that is used by all local authorities is “reasonable”. After all, using your argument, one may question why an LA is not in breach of the DDA by only providing accessible bays for Blue Badge holders and not all disabled people.

Mobilise is a membership charity and campaigning for accessible spaces to be kept free for Blue Badge holders is what our members tell us they want us to campaign on. This is the view of not just Mobilise but also SCOPE, The British Polio Fellowship and JCMD, which is a pan-disability group. We think we would be doing a disservice to our members and disabled people who rely on wider spaces close to their destination if we started asking for the Blue Badge scheme to be disregarded in private car parks.

'UKCPS are a private parking company, not some sort of enforcement agency! They issue tickets at the drop of a hat to anyone for any spurious reason, including to vulnerable disabled people. And then they don't cancel the tickets on appeal - they send scary debt collector letters. Please test this yourselves, anonymously.'

We know about some of the problems with companies such as UKCPS. It is only early days for us working with them and trying to improve their treatment of people with disabilities. Like we’ve already said it is far easier to get our views across when we can sit down and have a rational discussion.

'I see that you've replied to some people who post on Moneysavingexpert.com saying that you've asked the BPA for advice! The BPA are not independent, they are a trade association for private parking companies. They also know full well that private companies cannot 'fine' people (a 'parking charge notice' unrelated to any loss/damage is still a fine/penalty and is unlawful - so changing the word is just semantics)'.

As already mentioned we have only had correspondence from yourself and one other person. Mobilise has worked with the BPA for several years and we are represented on the Parking Forum – giving the opinions of people with disabilities on a variety of parking issues. For your information the BPA are not just an association for private parking companies they are also an association for manufacturers, car park operators, local authorities, health authorities, airports, railways, shopping centres, theme parks and consultants. The BPA has a different opinion to you on what a parking company can charge for a PCN. The rights and wrongs of what is lawful is a matter for the courts to decide. The current situation is that PCNs are issued and therefore Mobilise’s main concern is to help our members contest their PCNs if they are incorrectly or unfairly issued.


'Please, although you don't have money to spend on getting legal advice - at least test the system yourselves, anonymously. You will see what happens to people whose Blue Badge slips down, then get a UKCPS ticket. Try appealing it with a copy of the Blue Badge. Then be shocked by the barrage of debt collector letters that will follow. There's no risk to you by doing this, UKCPS won't actually take you to Court (they'd lose anyway). These companies rely on threats and your charity is associated with it'.

As we have already said we know there are problems. We’re doing our best to change them and make it better. It is a new relationship that we have with UKCPS and we cannot make improvements over night. They have also recognised that there are problems and this is one of the reasons they have turned to us for advice. There are also changes coming in through in government legislation which will hopefully make things a lot clearer for everyone in the near future.

'I feel the whole association is bringing mobilise into disrepute, and not only from the talk on internet forums (today's forum chat = tomorrows press articles). Just one case of a disabled person who then makes a complaint against UKCPS under the DDA is not going to look good. A DDA breach, the proceeds of which are being shared with mobilise!'

As we already stated we do not make any money from UKCPS issuing a PCN. You may not agree with us trying to improve the parking industry for the benefit of people with disabilities but we think it is the right thing to do. We don’t want to see Blue Badge holders being penalised for displaying a badge incorrectlyand we feel we have a really good opportunity to change these bad practices.

'Please take this issue seriously..I urge you to at least test the UKCPS modus operandi for yourselves. You will be shocked at the threats that their debt collectors send for a debt that is unenforceable in law (and they know it)'.

We are grateful for you writing and sharing your concerns and we can reassure you that we do take them seriously. We hear from our members about the problems they have had and this is why we want to change how parking companies work. We see our corporate membership scheme as a good way for us to do this.

If you wish to post this reply onto any internet forums please can we request that you print our reply in full.

Yours sincerely,

MOBILISE

Coupon-mad

And here are just some genuine, recent disabled customer/UKCPS ticket cases I copied & pasted together to send them as an example of what gets on the news and in forums (just think how many ordinary law abiding people don't go on forums and just pay or worry!):


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2682799
(25/8/10, scroll to post number 10 which is about UKCPS in spite of heading):

I was 'presented' with a Parking Notice Charge...for 'parking' my vehicle in a disabled bay outside Curry's in New Mersey Retail Park (recently) so I could take my disabled daughter into the store…To my mind...the accurate and visible display of her current and lawful blue badge was sufficient, therefore, 'ONLY' the badge was displayed NOT the timer clock (as would be used when parking on yellow markings etc on the roadside.) When we emerged from the store we were gifted a PARKING NOTICE CHARGE from UKCPS Ltd - Our Crime (vehemently denied) was to have parked in a disabled bay with NO Badge displayed!?!
I rang the Police who were extremely understanding....But unable to help as they have no involvement unless it can be proven that this 'firm' UKCPS Ltd are acting unlawfully... Hmmm. I am stressed by this and has taken my attention from more important and vital issues in my life. What on Earth is going on with 'stuff' that is allowed in our Country for the sake of GET RICH QUICK SCHEMES?
This type of money making schemes should be outlawed. Many vulnerable Law Abiding People would panic and Pay - this CANNOT be right!

(Answer given on the forum, as ever = ignore it, make a paper aeroplane out of it)

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/local-west-yorkshire-news/2010/08/10/disabled-bus-banned-from-great-northern-retail-park-86081-27029780/
News story (August 2010) re UKCPS:
Parking bosses have banned a minibus for old and disabled people from a retail park. The service…used to transport its passengers to the door of shops at the Great Northern Retail Park, Great Northern Street. The minibus…would also wait at the bottom of the car park to take shoppers home.
But now UKCPS, which runs the car park at the retail estate, has banned the minibus from entering the gates of the park. Now old and disabled people must walk, hobble or wheel their way out of the car park and across the busy Great Northern Street to catch the ML4 home. Customers unable to walk the distance may now have to stump up extra cash for taxis now the service, which is free to over-60s bus pass holders, has been barred.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=35340775&postcount=1767
I recently received a parking charge notice for parking in a disabled bay, but failing to display my blue badge. I'm a (recent) bi-lateral amputee, and have just returned to driving after a long absence. I parked my car in a disabled bay - and simply forgot to display my badge. My car is a mobility vehicle, clearly has 'disabled' written on the excise license and fairly obvious hand controls.
Foolishly, I paid the penalty the next day and submitted an appeal with mitigating circumstances. The company, using a somewhat misleading name (UKCPS) replied, stating that the charge stands, but inviting me to subscribe to a company called 'Mobilise'. They're offering to pay the annual £44 subscription, and refund me the remaining £16!!!!

(Too late to tell this poor victim to ignore! Appeal rejected of course, they ALL are!)

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=50678
By firefox 1943: disability rights
Some weeks ago I had to return a faulty telephone connection box to B& Q. As I arrived it began to rain heavily with extremely gusty winds. Being disabled it would have been impossible for me to walk from the disabled parking area to the store so I parked my car outside the store. On my return to my vehicle I found a UKCPS parking ticket. My car does display a disabled drivers badge on its front screen. Now I have received a letter demanding I pay them £100. What can I do?

Answer given = ignore

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/3qlqx-this-is-the-letter-i-sent-to-ukcps-they-have-refused-my-appeal
By Mrs J L McGill
THIS IS THE LETTER I SENT TO UKCPS - THEY HAVE REFUSED MY APPEAL. DO I REALLY HAVE TO PAY £80 TOMORROW OR £100 AFTR THAT? 12 July 2010 Without prejudice UKCPS Ltd PO Box 1355 Huddersfield HD1 9ZN Dear Sirs Penalty Notice 505081 On 29th June 2010 I visited the Great Northern Retail Park. Firstly I went to Homebase…when I came out I needed to visit Boots...I turned in there and displayed my blue badge correctly. Although it is only two shops away I was obliged to move my car nearer to that shop due to my walking disability. I will be eighty years old in three months and suffer from severe osteo arthritis…I got out of the car leaving my mentally handicapped daughter inside.
As I closed my door a gentleman approached me from the direction of Boots and I took him to be the Boots security guard. He said I should not leave my car as the back end was protruding. I explained that due to my disablement it was extremely difficult for me to get in and out of cars and caused me a lot of pain. I informed him that I would only be a few minutes making my purchase. It must have been very obvious to him that I could walk only with great difficulty. He then came nearer, put the notice in a plastic bag and stuck it to my windscreen.
I feel that I have been very unfairly treated. It seems to me to be disablement discrimination. The ticket has ticked the box ‘out of marked bay’. In fact at least 90% of my car was inside the disabled bay…

Answer given = ignore

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/34371667#Comment_34371667
By lindamac20: blue badge not displayed
Couple of days ago I received a "ticket" from UKCPS. I was parked in a disabled bay, unfortunately my blue badge had fall off the dash.
Someone said they had had the same experience and although they sent a letter of apology and a copy of blue badge they still had to pay fine. I have to respond by Monday 5th July or cost will go up from £60 to £100. What should I do?

Answer given = ignore

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?270791-Do-I-have-to-pay-this-fine
BY PARKING-FINE: Do I have to pay this fine? I am a disabled driver, and went in to a shop (on a private car park) and forgot to display my blue badge…when I returned to the car some five minutes later I had a ticket. The ticket was from UK CPS. I did make a purchase from the retail park, so how can I have been trespassing? Now I feel really upset and confused. Can anyone help me please?

Answer given = ignore

http://www.pepipoo.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t50791.html
By Sponge:
My mother in law is a disabled badge holder. She was visiting Aintree Racecourse Retail Park recently and received a parking ticket. There were no disabled bays available, so she parked on double yellow lines outside one of the stores (Next). She was displaying her badge and parked there as she thought she was allowed to park on double yellow lines:
Issuer: UK CPS Ltd ‘Offence(!!)’: Parked out of a marked bay
I have told her to keep hold of the ticket, but to ignore it and not contact them in any way. Not to respond to any letters threatening court, bailiffs, etc.
She's easily worried (OAP), especially by some of the wording on the ticket about courts, etc. Some reassurance that this is the correct way to handle it would help her sleep.

Answer given = ignore

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/27933477#Comment_27933477
By: Nellydunne
I was parked on double yellow lines on private land ie aintree retail outlet.all the available disabled bays were full so i parked on double yellow lines near to the shop.
I displayed the blue badges and accompanied my disabled wife inside the shop. when we returned to our vehicle there was a parking notice charge put in my wipers.
I thought i was ok with my badges showing in windscreen but it seems not the ticket was basically telling me to pay £100 or £60 if paid within 14 days to ukcps.

Answer given = ignore

http://forums.examiner.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=811
by pam re UKCPS ticket in the Great Northern Retail Park:
‘I was fined £75 in this car park. We were not in Currys five minutes we only picked a leaflet up. The attendant must have been in hiding she wrote the ticket out stuck it on the car and disappeared within five minutes. I wrote to the company giving them my disabled permit number, expiry date etc. But they said the £75 fine stood, as a gesture of goodwill they would allow me 5 extra days to pay. Seeing as I had sent a cheque with the letter (as instructed) this was not exactly generous.’

By Rightangle:
I was also caught in this car park. I took my 90 yr old father to buy a new tv. I parked outside Currys in a disabled space because I need the wider space to manouver his wheelchair and help him into it. I am sure the attendant must have watched me with the wheelchair before I went into the shop and then placed the ticket for a £75.00 fee on the car. My father does have a blue badge but I did not think private car parks were part of the blue badge scheme. I found out the e-mail address of UKCPS and forwarded details of the blue badge…It was totally ignored. I have paid the charge but I will not shop on this site again.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?211349
By Liz Bradshaw: UKCPS threaten legal action!
Despite having reminded them that I have no legal obligation to divulge the details of the driver to them they have now threatened legal action in that they will apply to the court for bailiffs to be given permission to clamp the vehicle ANYWHERE it may be i.e. at my home address or on the highway. (= illegal).
As I am disabled and need the car to be available at all times I am now at the stage where I feel I should quote chapter and verse of the rules and regulations they should be acting under to them. The letter threatening court action arrived today and says that if payment is not made within 10 days court proceeding will be issued!

Answer given = ignore

http://www.maghullstar.co.uk/maghull-aintree-news/maghull-aintree-news/2010/04/01/confusion-over-parking-bays-in-aintree-costs-mum-hefty-fine-104897-26142287/
Case of UKCPS issuing a parking charge for a parent with a toddler parking in a bay clearly OK for her, with a P&C sign in front of it (but with a faded disabled painted bay under the car!).

Coupon-mad

Oh, and when I was a Disability Advice Manager we had a pseudo disabled bay outside. Guess what? We did NOT insist on Blue Badge holders only, we allowed its use for 'anyone with a disability as defined under the DDA definition'. That was our policy and all our staff knew it (of course the sign just said 'parking for disabled service-users only').

Sorry Mobilise, it's not rocket science and I am afraid we often had to trust people (we were hardly going to do some sort of test before they could park...!). Our customers (often passengers in cars) included recently-diagnosed people who were eligible for Blue Badges and had not got them yet - funnily enough it's not the first priority in such circumstances of a recent cancer diagnosis for example, especially for non-drivers.

trisontana

They still don't get it over the question of Blue badges, private land and the breaches of the DDA. As for answering within a couple of days. I emailed them on the Monday of last week. And they still haven't replied. I know of more people who have contacted them, including the disabled pensioner who features at the top of this thread.

trisontana

I like this little gem:-
One of the many activities our Information Officers carry out is helping members appeal parking tickets and since these companies have become corporate members this task has become considerably easier, as they are more able to understand why disabled people took longer or parked across two bays etc.

Of course people do not have to go through all that rigmarole. All they have to do is completely ignore these scam invoices.

taffy056

I have contacted them and had no reply, so the person who responded can't have the correct info.

They are burying their heads in the sand with this issue, basically all tickets issued in private car parks are not enforceable as we all know on here.

These companies don't need education on disability issues , or other issues regarding parking, they know full well what they are doing, basically running a nigerian 419 scam in car parks that are rubber stamped by the BPA who are just the yes men of their members.

What needs to be done to these companies is liquidation, they don't deserve to operate because of the scam they operate, the clampers are going which is brilliant, what is needed next are the ppc's to follow the same route, and get councils with their independent appeals process to run these places fairly.

trisontana

This is the letter written by the disabled person featured at the top of this thread, and published on the CAG. It was sent on August 16:-

"I wonder if you have approached (or would be happy to approach) UKCPS regarding their way of 'dealing' with the fact that they continue to harass and intimidate disabled people in this way. I forgot to put my blue badge in the window of my car, and appealed against the 'fine'. My appeal letter has been ignored and they are going to continue to frighten and intimidate me by sending threatening letters.
I feel this is discrimination against disabled people. What do you think?"