What happened to getting married before having children?

LJM

balletshoes wrote: »

Can't disagree with any of that - but I honestly do believe that there are women out there (like me) who aren't bothered one way or the other about having a wedding or a marriage certificate - and can still share similar life values with the person they choose to spend their lives with, and raise children with.
My OH and I come from completely different backgrounds, cultures, family set-ups, even religions, and yet we are still together and content, and raising our child together. What is important is that as a couple you talk, communicate, and discuss expectations in life etc for the duration - and you can do that without the ring on your finger.

wholeheartedly agree balletshoes well said

tiff

Is it really just "a bit of paper", as people keep describing it?

pigpen

no it is a legally binding document.. but that doesn't mean it means more to those who ignore it.. it is as binding as a will or any other contract, I'd say..

Torry_Quine

No it isn't just a piece of paper and if that is what you believe then why on earth would you get married? It is a way of publicly declaring your love and commitment to each other what ever the future may throw at you and believe you me that has been a lot. This may not be what others feel they either want or need but is what those of us who believe in marriage would try to live by.

livalot

Sorry if this offends but this is just my opinion. Can I just ask why when you do anything really serious/important you always need "a piece of paper", buying a house, getting a loan, a work contract, even getting a new credit card etc. But you do not need anything to produce a child. We have gone too far the other way, too many people are producing children knowing that their relationship will not really last. Its sad for the children.

When I hear that people are living together it tells me a few things

!) you do not consider the other person important enough to get that piece of paper
2) you cant be bothered because you do not expect it to last and/or do not want the hassle when you break up
3) the children in these situations will know that they are the result of a yet another relationship where the parents can just walk out whenever they have one too many rows.

I met a woman last week who has 4 children, 3 of whom have different Dads. She told me that the man she is now with (and pregnant by) is the "one" but will not live with him or marry him because her life is complicated enough?????? She is doing a brilliant job raising her children, but even she admitted that her children are suffering because they do not see their Dads often enough. Would marriage have helped her? It may have slowed her down a bit, it may have made her think a little before producing yet another child, it might have made the latest man stick around a little longer and not just enough time to dump his sperm and run.

I got married because I wanted my partner to know that he was so important to me that I was ready to make that commitment to him and wanted to be together for a very very long time.I wanted to show him I was ready to do everything possible to make our relationship work. I really did not care about the party or the dress. We have had our problems but 12 years on and two children later we are still very happy together.

I do not want to go back to medieval times, marriage is not for everybody but I believe we have gone too far the other way. We have too many relationships breaking up where children are involved. Maybe we have all got too selfish, its just too easy to have children whenever and its too easy to move onto another relationship and have more children when we feel like it. We are setting our children a horrendous example.

Quiet_Life

Hi Livalot
APOLOGIES I HAve just scanned this thread and not read every post.
I agree with a lot of what you sre saying.
I have a niece who lives with her partner because they have a child, neither wants marriage, both come from stable families [ 30 yrs plus] and both have had relatively happy childhoods.
Why neither of them believe in marriage, no one knows, there are fairly intelligent, both have good degrees and are working.
Under the law, marriage would give them some protection in the case of a future split [which we hope wil not happen].
What is the answer?

POPPYOSCAR

Ritaaaa wrote: »

My opinion is, it's up to the couple what they want to do - if they aren't total idiots that are just having a child for the wrong reason, whether to bring them together more, or just because they are simply childish and don't even fully realise what is involved. I have no problem with unmarried couples that are as commited to eachother as a married couple. To me, marriage isn't even "everything". Marriage doesn't instantly mean that the couple are happy and responsiable enough to have a child. So to me, it depends on the couple.

This is so true.

I was with two of my married friends the other night(I am not married) we have all been in our relationships for over 20 years. One told us she and her husband have been talking about getting divorced and the other one said she and her husband never sit down and talk to each other and when the children leave home she doesn't know what will happen. In all our 20 years and two children together we have never felt like that.So please don't tell me that I am not as committed to my relationship because I am not married.

balletshoes

livalot wrote: »

Sorry if this offends but this is just my opinion. Can I just ask why when you do anything really serious/important you always need "a piece of paper", buying a house, getting a loan, a work contract, even getting a new credit card etc. But you do not need anything to produce a child. We have gone too far the other way, too many people are producing children knowing that their relationship will not really last. Its sad for the children.

When I hear that people are living together it tells me a few things

!) you do not consider the other person important enough to get that piece of paper
2) you cant be bothered because you do not expect it to last and/or do not want the hassle when you break up
3) the children in these situations will know that they are the result of a yet another relationship where the parents can just walk out whenever they have one too many rows.

I met a woman last week who has 4 children, 3 of whom have different Dads. She told me that the man she is now with (and pregnant by) is the "one" but will not live with him or marry him because her life is complicated enough?????? She is doing a brilliant job raising her children, but even she admitted that her children are suffering because they do not see their Dads often enough. Would marriage have helped her? It may have slowed her down a bit, it may have made her think a little before producing yet another child, it might have made the latest man stick around a little longer and not just enough time to dump his sperm and run.

I got married because I wanted my partner to know that he was so important to me that I was ready to make that commitment to him and wanted to be together for a very very long time.I wanted to show him I was ready to do everything possible to make our relationship work. I really did not care about the party or the dress. We have had our problems but 12 years on and two children later we are still very happy together.

I do not want to go back to medieval times, marriage is not for everybody but I believe we have gone too far the other way. We have too many relationships breaking up where children are involved. Maybe we have all got too selfish, its just too easy to have children whenever and its too easy to move onto another relationship and have more children when we feel like it. We are setting our children a horrendous example.

again, i feel there is a difference (and a huge one) between a couple who live together and raise their children together as one family unit, but who decide not to get married (for whatever their reasons) - and women who just want babies/move their latest man in after a week/want to live off the state for 16 years.
Just because a couple are not married, does not automatically make them in any or all of your 3 bullet points livalot. What about all the posters here in this thread who have been together and raising their children with their OH's for years and years?

You did make me think though - I asked myself if I knew, or just assumed, the marriage status of my daughters classmates parents. I know most of those parents, and to be perfectly honest - I probably assume in ten or so out of 20-ish kids that their parents are married. In another half dozen or so, they might be married, they might not, but they've been together raising their children for at least the last 6 years. But I don't really know the marital status of any of them, after all I've not seen their marriage certificate or the wedding photos, so what do I know? They appear to have stable settled families, whether they are married or not, so how is that giving a horrendous example to our children?

woody01

I (the bloke) have been with my partner for 13 years and we have 2 children.
I admit, maybe we should've gotten married but after speaking about it (ALOT), we are going to wait until they are older.

We are incredibly happy, and to be honest, we have been together ALOT longer than many people are married.

!) you do not consider the other person important enough to get that piece of paper - Complete and utter tripe! She is the most important thing to me aswell as the children. Does getting married prove that further.....no!
2) you cant be bothered because you do not expect it to last and/or do not want the hassle when you break up - As i said, we have been together LONGER than most people are married
3) the children in these situations will know that they are the result of a yet another relationship where the parents can just walk out whenever they have one too many rows. - That is just ridiculous and reading it back, i am sure you would agree what a immensely stupid statement that is.

Just for the record, i have:
- Never been on the dole
- Scrounged from the state in any way
- Always supported my family and worked very hard to do so
- Provided, even when something happens to me, for ALL of them very well.

To say that you marriage proves to people how committed you are to each other is also some kind of fairytale.
Would a marriage certificate stop your husband cheating on you? Nope.....
Would a marriage certificate stop him leaving you? Nope.......

If anything, i am probably more reliable, supportive, hard working, family orientated, than most of your husbands are.

do_it_today!

Fang wrote: »

According to the bible it is a sin to wear two different fabrics, and an abomination to eat shellfish. When I see these so called moral people following all teachings to the letter, then I'll respect them.

.:)

I didnt know that? but then when was the last time I picked up a bible...;)