HTC Desire Vodafone 500mb Fair Usage Policy

PvtPyle

gjchester wrote: »

The handset is yours from the moment the airtime contract comes into force....

Thanks for summarising this.

andywicks

PvtPyle wrote: »

Andy - are you looking to retain your handset? There are some murmurings that the wording of the contract suggests the handset belongs to the customer. However, I doubt Vodafone are likely to just hand out £300 smartphones for nothing.

Alternatively, are you just looking to get out of your contract without paying any cancellation fees, or indeed the remainder of the agreement?

I am looking to get out of my contract because the introduction of these new charges will cost me significantly more each month. Based on my bill dated 14th May, these charges would have increased my bill by £20 - more than 47%.

Ownership of the handset is a different matter, which I haven't looked into in great detail as yet. The T&Cs state:

Vodafone_T&Cs wrote:

11.4. When this Agreement comes to an end:
(a) we will disconnect your Mobile Device

Note use of the term your mobile device. This would infer that the device is owned by the consumer, not Vodafone. This is also in line with previous statements from Vodafone which go along the lines of "the handset does not form part of the contract", so terminating the agreement does not in any way mean that Vodafone have any right to demand the handset be returned.

Andy

zzleezz

gjchester wrote: »

Not like that, however...

Consider if they had 2 treadmills and you were on one of them for every minute they were open each day, and no one else could use it. Then if they limited you to 10 minutes so others could use it then it would be more than fair to others, if not to you. You'd abused the fair use policy.

Data bandwith is not unlimited, just like the Gym does not have an infinite number of treadmills.

That hardly applies here, I bought my contract with VF through mobiles.co.uk, go there now and select HTC Desire as a handset then on any of the vodafone deals click more info. In there it defines the internet bundle as "Unlimited", it even says you can browse and email as much as you want!

If at your this fantasy gym I for some reason took out a membership despite them only having 2 treadmills I would make sure before I took out the contract that I could use them as much as I required. I did this in the case of my VF contract, at point of sale (mobiles.co.uk) it said and STILL says nothing about 500mb caps.

Im sorry but this discussion has become incredibly complicated and it might be a little more helpfull if you were in possesion of all the facts before you comment in such an unhelpfull fashion. There are 1493 posts on this subject and I have read pretty much all of them (skippin over some of the less "helpfull" ones that appear now and then.

There is nothing about this situation that is fair as far as the customers are concerned. If I buy a television I want to be able to use it as intended, if that meant I had to take out a contract with SKY so that I could recieve all the channels that I wanted to watch then thats what I would do, if SKY then decided to change the package and charge extra for premium content I would be able to reduce my package if I felt it was unfair. I cant do this with my media rich mobile, I am stuck with it for another 16+ months and as far as I can tell its now a crippled device.

gjchester

zzleezz wrote: »

That hardly applies here, I bought my contract with VF through mobiles.co.uk, go there now and select HTC Desire as a handset then on any of the vodafone deals click more info. In there it defines the internet bundle as "Unlimited", it even says you can browse and email as much as you want! .

This has been discussed. Despite what seems common sense the term unlimited is acceptable by the ASA as long as there is a statement that a fair use policy is in place. They amount of the fair use does not have to be displayed.

I know it sucks but thats how the ASA see it. Unlimited = 500MB is OK.

zzleezz wrote: »

If at your this fantasy gym I for some reason took out a membership despite them only having 2 treadmills I would make sure before I took out the contract that I could use them as much as I required. I did this in the case of my VF contract, at point of sale (mobiles.co.uk) it said and STILL says nothing about 500mb caps.

I know it's not a great analagy but the point is a fair use policy is just that, to ensure people who hog data bandwith pay for it, and all people get a fair use of the service.

And it does not have to say a numerical set limit as long as it says ther is a fair use policy. If it does not say there is a fair use policy then you have a case against Mobile.co.uk for mis selling, NOT vodafone. Vodafone did not sell it to you.

zzleezz wrote: »

Im sorry but this discussion has become incredibly complicated and it might be a little more helpfull if you were in possesion of all the facts before you comment in such an unhelpfull fashion. There are 1493 posts on this subject and I have read pretty much all of them (skippin over some of the less "helpfull" ones that appear now and then.

There is nothing about this situation that is fair as far as the customers are concerned. If I buy a television I want to be able to use it as intended, if that meant I had to take out a contract with SKY so that I could recieve all the channels that I wanted to watch then thats what I would do, if SKY then decided to change the package and charge extra for premium content I would be able to reduce my package if I felt it was unfair. I cant do this with my media rich mobile, I am stuck with it for another 16+ months and as far as I can tell its now a crippled device.

The fact are simple, it's just it's not what people want to hear.

You signed up to a contract with a fair use policy and a minimum term.. This has been defined by Vodafone as 500MB. there has always been in place a condition that says if you exceed this then VF reserve the right to charge or limit your use, on other that others can use the service as well as you.

VF have now clarified this policy, they had previously used discression if people went over, now as there are more smart phones they need to ration it more. Data bandwith is not free and cannot be increased at will.

Sky do regulary increase charges, and if you sign up to Sky you are commited to paying the contracted amount for the set term, they can increase charges if they see fit as long as they notify you. Same with Vodafone. Sky won't let you cancel a contract until you pay the minimum term off.

Your phone is no more crippled today then it was last month. The same policy was in force, it's jsut now you know exacty what it covers and the costs if you break it.

andywicks

gjchester wrote: »

Google "cancelling contract minimum term" it's common across all sectors, Gyms are know to be the most agressive people to leave.

To answer your question it depends on the contract. If they say they reserve the right to increase charges for the facilities or charge you for locker use then it probably stands. They told you they had that right and now they are exercising it.

The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 provide examples of unfair terms. I have copied one here:

UTTCC wrote:

providing for the price of goods to be determined at the time of delivery or allowing a seller of goods or supplier of services to increase their price without in both cases giving the consumer the corresponding right to cancel the contract if the final price is too high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was concluded;

So, despite VF including in the Terms and Conditions that they reserve the right to increase prices isn't worth the paper it's written on. If they do increase the price then they MUST give the customer the right to cancel the contract without incurring penalty fees.

Andy

N20Y1D

gjchester wrote: »

Not like that, however...

Consider if they had 2 treadmills and you were on one of them for every minute they were open each day, and no one else could use it. Then if they limited you to 10 minutes so others could use it then it would be more than fair to others, if not to you. You'd abused the fair use policy.

Data bandwith is not unlimited, just like the Gym does not have an infinite number of treadmills.

Do you read what is posted here.


a direct quote from jon_vodafone:
In my personal view, and that of Offcom's, the word "Unlimited" in this context is not being mis-used.


There is no limit to how much data you can use on the Mobile Internet packs - if you use more than 500MB it does not stop working, and you do not get charged. It is truly unlimited as per the dictionary definition.


The common factor in all these discussions, (and I have to admit to being very weary of having to re-iterate the point to lots of different customers, but that's by no means your fault) seems to be down to fear. Fear that because there's some small print in your contract that mentions 500MB, that if you step over this margin by even a tiny amount, that men in black appear at your door demanding an extortionate amount of money or stick a cork in your internet pipe. I know I'm exaggerating for effect here, but it really is the case that our Fair Usage Policy is not in place to try and catch people out. Far from it!


At the end of the day, the only reason the Fair Usage Policy exists, is to allow us to take action against a very small minority of users who are blatantly taking the michael when it comes to what they use their data connections for. These are usually people who are using the phone as a modem, hooked up to a computer which is using file-sharing 24/7, or hosting a website, or streaming an internet radio station - all sorts of things for which they should really have forked out the extra for a proper business account or high-volume solution - but who also don't mind ruining the quality of the service for the rest of us by soaking up all our bandwidth.


It's highly unlikely that we're going to crack down on people just for watching YouTube - something which your phone was actually designed to be able to do without much effort. You really don't have anything to worry about, and I just wish more people were able to relax and enjoy their unlimited internet without panic about how much they've used that month. It's a fantastic high-value service that we're offering, but it just seems too many people think this is too good to be true

Unquote

neonplanet40

Ok guys i've been emailing vodafone for a hout 5 days now. The latest email I have got is this regarding cancelling and avoiding termination fee's

Hello Mr. xxxxx,
As mentioned in the terms and conditions 7(a) it stats that "We may change our charges or introduce new charges. If we increase our charges, we will give you at least 14 days' notice and you may have a right to end this agreement under clause 11. If we believe any change in our charges will not disadvantage you, we may include it without telling you."
However, we have give the 14-days notice as per the terms and condition and if you exceed your data usage, we will monitor your usage for 3-month and review it, if it exceeds by 10% then we will cancel your account without any Early Termination Fee.


So what does this mean?

MikeKanani

neonplanet40 wrote: »

Ok guys i've been emailing vodafone for a hout 5 days now. The latest email I have got is this regarding cancelling and avoiding termination fee's

Hello Mr. xxxxx,
As mentioned in the terms and conditions 7(a) it stats that "We may change our charges or introduce new charges. If we increase our charges, we will give you at least 14 days' notice and you may have a right to end this agreement under clause 11. If we believe any change in our charges will not disadvantage you, we may include it without telling you."
However, we have give the 14-days notice as per the terms and condition and if you exceed your data usage, we will monitor your usage for 3-month and review it, if it exceeds by 10% then we will cancel your account without any Early Termination Fee.


So what does this mean?

That is progress, slow progress but still progress. They have acknowledged the right to cancel under clause 11b of the pay monthly airtime agreement (note the reference to 10%). I would suggest you reply to email stating that the terms and conditions base the 10% on your previous month's usage and do not require you to wait the 3 months as suggested and by not terminating your agreement they are in breach of the contract.

danielz000

MikeKanani wrote: »

That is progress, slow progress but still progress. They have acknowledged the right to cancel under clause 11b of the pay monthly airtime agreement (note the reference to 10%). I would suggest you reply referring to email stating that the terms and conditions base the 10% on your previous month's usage and do not require you to wait the 3 months as suggested and by not terminating your agreement they are in breach of the contract.

i agree. be careful they don't try and back track by saying it's past the date of the change and so too late to cancel though!

zzleezz

@gjchester

Ive gone through some of your previous posts and all you have done over many many posts in this and other threads is tell people that they are wrong in this matter. Your name isnt Gordon in real life is it? Is that what the G stands for in your username? Because I had a 2 hour chat with someone on vodafones live web chat service and they were as thick skinned as you apparently are.

I grant you are a decent debator and you use persuasive language and arguments but seriously, enough, the purpose of this thread is to discuss in a place where vodafone cannot delete posts the unfair CHANGES that vodafone have THEMSELVES admitted they are going to make on June 1st.

Repeatedly stating that its not a change when the company itself is saying it is in fact a change is not helpful, correct or funny.

Not only have VF conceded that it is a change they have stated the terms under which customers would be allowed to be released from the contract, namely the fact the the new charges being introduced on June 1st will increase their bill by at least 10%.

We can carry on arguing about treadmills if you want but do everyone here a huge favour and do that in another thread, you have said your bit if you have anything constructive to say by all means pitch in but for heavens sake either read the whole story or dont participate with false facts.

/rant end