HTC Desire Vodafone 500mb Fair Usage Policy

Seajays

simon1 wrote: »

But we all signed up for the VF contracts knowing there was a 500mb limit. There were people on other threads/forums asking if this would be enough (I read these with interest never having had a smartphone before).

No we did not. See my post at #534

simon1 wrote: »

As far as the argument about whether 500mb is enough - that's a totally different topic.

No it isn't - it's actually the crux of the issue. The T&Cs do not specify any numerical usage limit - they simply refer to what would "reasonably" be considered "excessive". See my post on this at #514

If my normal usage of the phone, to do what I bought it to do, is somehow considered "excessive", then there is something very wrong with a usage limit set at that level. As stated above in #554 I am averaging 20MB a day in normal usage this month, meaning each month I will be consistently 600MB, so will eventually fall foul of the extra charges.

My usage is not excessive. How can normal use of the phone and it's function be "excessive"!? I would therefore dispute a blanket 500MB cap being introduced under the pretext of the "excessive use" clause in the T&Cs.

Goldust

Hi all, been away from the thread for a few days.

I've been trying my best to get my data over 500MB for this billing month (it's nowhere near as I was abroad for 2 weeks) so that I had a chance to cancel as I've just upgraded to an HTC Legend. With the latest updates am I wasting my time now?

DarkConvict

Put your phone into 3g mode and watch iplayer or listen to your radio, that racks up usages very quickly

DarkConvict

3g on the phone is upto 384Kbps.

3G mobile dongles on T-Mobile go as high as a whopping 21Mbps!

Anyway at 384Kbps = 46.9 KB/s.
At full speed you can hit 500MB in 171 minutes. So 2 hours and 51 minutes.
Meaning the cap can be broken on a 28 day month, in only 0.4% of the time in a given month

Vodafone uses statistics we use statistics

danielz000

Hi All,

A new cancellation letter for you all... Just fill in the blanks:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/32798431#Comment_32798431

Mine's signed and the cheque is written. Will post it tomorrow by recorded delivery.

Dan

gjchester

simon1 wrote: »

If you were told that then you are right - that's totally misleading. As I said, I never asked but if I had been told in no uncertain terms what you were told then fair enough, you have every right to be peed off.

Using the term unlimited when it's not is not just vodafone, all telecom co's do it from Vodafone to Virgin Media.

Yes it's dishonest to most people but the ASA have repeatedly rules that unlimited can mean limited o 500mb, the last time was in december.

http://asa.org.uk/Complaints-and-ASA-action/Adjudications/2009/12/Vodafone-Ltd/TF_ADJ_47835.aspx

It's clear from the ajudication the ASA accept people know unlimited means 500mb so they are unlikely to change their minds this time over it.

DarkConvict

There are several complaints at the ASA i know, but Vodafone reps told customer they would not be charged for exceeding it, but now they have started to do it so does lead to an increase in bills by over 10%.
Then again Vodafone reps say at renewal, deal 50% off, then only apply it for 75% of the contract term...

Virgin Media get away with saying it is unlimited because it is, if you exceed it you are not charged. All they do is reduce your speed for 4 hours, unless your on 50MB package then their is no traffic shaping applied at all.

gjchester

Simon1 wrote:

As far as the argument about whether 500mb is enough - that's a totally different topic.

Seajays wrote: »

No it isn't - it's actually the crux of the issue. The T&Cs do not specify any numerical usage limit - they simply refer to what would "reasonably" be considered "excessive". See my post on this at #514

If my normal usage of the phone, to do what I bought it to do, is somehow considered "excessive", then there is something very wrong with a usage limit set at that level. As stated above in #554 I am averaging 20MB a day in normal usage this month, meaning each month I will be consistently 600MB, so will eventually fall foul of the extra charges.

My usage is not excessive. How can normal use of the phone and it's function be "excessive"!? I would therefore dispute a blanket 500MB cap being introduced under the pretext of the "excessive use" clause in the T&Cs.

The amount of data is not the issue, if it was 1GB, 10gb or 100GB people would still claim this is restrictive.

Please look at the last ASA ruling on this finding IN FAVOUR of vodafone. (http://asa.org.uk/Complaints-and-ASA-action/Adjudications/2009/12/Vodafone-Ltd/TF_ADJ_47835.aspx)

There has *ALWAYS* been a fair use policy and it's always been Vodafones right to charge for excessive use. It's also Vodafones right to determine what is excessive use at all times.

The ASA ruling says
"We noted Vodafones terms and conditions for the unlimited data service reserved the right to charge users who breached the fair usage policy and the terms and conditions for the unlimited text service made clear that those users exceeding the specified 3,000 texts a month would be automatically charged at their network rates."

Now although it refers to texts it's clear the ASA does not have an issue if you exceed a fair use policy and get charged. It also reads that they DO NOT accept that customers will see unlimited as such, and that as a fair use policy is listed then it's cosidered that unlimited as a sales terms is fine. Thisfair use policy has always been in vodafones terms and conditions, so it's unlikely to be considered a change. All that has been done is clarify matters as to when and how much you will be charged.

Saying you have not had the 7 days notice (as required for a price change under 7.1) is pretty pointless given there are now 29 pages of posts here. Vodafone read the forum and have reps here, who can see it too not to mention if you have sent emails / letters / online chats they will be logged so you can't later on say you were not notified of the change. Today is the 14th of may, this change comes in on the 1st of june, thats at least 15 days notice.

This change may affect some people, but it will be a minority. It appears many people are trying to push thir luck to try and get a free phone.

N20Y1D

sticking a post up in the middle of a thread on an internet message board does not constitute notice. also on the very same e forum there are posts from vodafone employees stating that there is no charge for exceeding the limit. If they are now saying there is then that is changing terms & conditions.

There is no standard charge for exceeding the FUP listed anywhere in the terms and conditions nor is it listed on the vodafone website.

Alsodid you notice on the ASA ruling from september 2008 vodafone data limit was 500mb, something they agreed to review. The fact they now feel the need to introduce a penalty charger would indicate more and more people are reaching this limit.

essex_chris

I'm pretty sure that 3G can be higher than 384kbps - sat in Gatwick International Arrivals last Saturday i ran a Speedtest.net test and it gave me 6mbps which is double my home broadband connection. I was most impressed!

I can fully appreciate that Vodafone do have the right to have a limit, reserve the right to adjust it as they see fit, and charge customers that use above it - but for me it's vitally important that the sales staff inform customers as such. Even when pressed for some time Vodafone staff both instore, on the phone to 191 and on this forum have made clear on many occasions that going over 500mb even repeatedly was not sufficient to be chargeable. Various figures have been given, be it 6-700mb, 50% over the limit, double the limit etc. This surely puts the benefit of the doubt on the side of the customer.

Let's be honest - Vodafone are entitled to start saying actually 500mb is the limit. If you repeatedly use 501mb or more then we will contact you and charge you. But only for new connections and existing customers who were not informed something different.

Tariffs generally include calling minutes, text messages (no longer MMS - used to be 3 texts per 1 mms), and then mobile internet data - these three things are pretty fundamental to a tariff and so is the cost. Vodafone are seeking to change this for people who are tied into a contract for anything up to 24 months.

When pressed on the matter there has not been a swift clear and concise response - their own eForum has led people to understand one thing, which although it annoyed people was a soft blow - "you'll be charged only if you excessively use significantly more than 500mb", then later "anything over 500mb is excessive".

The handling of the issue has been incredibly poor. This wreaks of backroom wrangling - a "let's see what we can get away with" attitude.

I for one simply want to be able to have the service and charges that i was sold. I don't want to cancel with Vodafone. In fact if i did i could very well simply sign up for another Vodafone deal, but i will be fully aware of the details of that deal when i do, and i will make sure i get certain issues confirmed in writing before i do.