HTC Desire Vodafone 500mb Fair Usage Policy

essex_chris

It now seems that having read through more carefully i have let Googlemails thread formatting confuse me (DOH!) and i was forwarded more detail in the second email i received.

This is the full reply as per the email i received

Hi Chris

I have forwarded you our official position as this moment in time.

I hope that this clarifies your issues.

Kind Regards

Amanda *****
Vodafone Directors Office.

11/05/10

We have seen quite a bit of speculation on the out of bundle charges for Vodafone UK mobile internet users on forums and in the media. We wanted to clarify things. Here are the facts as they stand today:

In June we'll be introducing a free text service to tell our contract customers when they're approaching the upper limit of their data bundle. As the vast majority of our mobile internet subscribers (more than 97 percent) never reach the limit they will not be receiving the text alerts at all.

The minority of our customers (less then 3 percent) who do come close will receive a text telling them they are approaching their data allowance and advising them to monitor their usage going forward. At this point customers will not be charged anything more.

If after receiving several such alerts, over a period of few months, customers continue to use excessive amounts of data they will be contacted by Vodafone and advised to upgrade to another data plan to avoid incurring unnecessary additional charges.

Customers will be able to make an informed decision on whether to continue, limit their use or change to a different price plan, giving them total control of their spend.

However, if customers continue to use excessive amounts of data over a longer period of time, the costs are as follows:

Current charge Out of bundle charge

No handheld data bundle 50p a day for 25MB 50p for an additional 10MB

Handheld data bundle £5 a month, or £7.50 with a flexi-bundle £5 for an additional 500MB

Note: 500MB means you can read and reply to thousands of emails, download 24 Google maps and read 8,000 BBC News stories. Today, a tiny fraction of our customers use their full allowance.

Some questions we've been asked since this information was made available:

1) The 3% of customers who use their 500MB, is this 3% of highend smartphone users? or people with old nokia 6600s?
It's 3% of people with a Mobile Internet Bundle on their account. Normally the only time we'd sell such a bundle would be with an internet ready device, such as a smartphone or other high end mobile.

2) What constitutes 'excessive'?
It's anything in excess of 500MB on a standard Mobile Internet bundle.

3) How many months constitutes 'a few'?
You will receive a text alert informing you that you’re close to exceeding your monthly allowance. If you continue to exceed your allowance the following month, you will be contacted and we will discuss your options (which may include upgrading to a Mobile Broadband bundle for example). If after this you will continue using your data out of bundle you may incur charges as per the above.

4) How long is "a longer period of time"?
As per 3)

5) Why does the Nexus tariff include 1GB but the Desire only gets 50% of that
Different products come with different packages, we're always reviewing our offers and will let you know if anything changes.

6) Will affected customers still retain a Fair Use Policy in their agreement after 1 June?
There will be an allowance (just like there is now) and if you exceed that, you will be contacted, consulted and may incur charges along the timescales as per 3). The Terms and Conditions say that you would be (see under data access).

7) Will affected customers be automatically charged if their monthly uses strays over 500MB?
Please see 3).

8) Can you please provide a real-life example of a customer who reads and replies to 10,000 emails, reads 8,000 BBC news stories and uses no mobile applications whatsoever? You’re currently justifying a 500MB data limit with a completely fictional example of usage. Vodafone are suggesting that customers who buy smartphones don’t use applications.
The figures given were to illustrate the volumes for the vast majority of customers, but it's almost impossible to give an accurate example as everyone uses their phone differently. I posted here demonstrating my own usage. I've just updated the post to give a more accurate measurement, but it shows that with the two smartphones I've used I havent' excelled 500MB before. Again, everybody's usage is different though, so I'm not saying all of yours will be the same as mine.

9) Have vodafone changed any of the wording in their T&C's?
These are our current Terms and Conditions. See under data access, we have always said customers would be charged for excessive use.

10) Can you send me a link to your fair usage policy which is referred to in the link you provided?

It's right down at the bottom, under "General". It says "All Vodafone services offered free or under unlimited subscription are subject to our Fair Use Policy. If, in the reasonable opinion of Vodafone, your use is excessive, we may ask you to moderate your usage. If, after we have asked you to moderate your usage, you fail to do so, we reserve the right to:

a) charge you for the excessive element of your usage at your price plan's standard rate;

b) throttle your usage; or

c) suspend or terminate your service in accordance with your airtime terms and conditions."

11) Could you also confirm at what rate we will be charged? Is it still £5 per 500mb, and if so, where is this rate written into the contract we agreed?

Yes, it's £5 per 500MB. In the General section of our Terms and Conditions, it's stated that you will be charged if you go over. The rates at which this will be charged are covered above.

12) What is your definition of a month?

Depending on which billing system you're on, it'll be either the first day of the calendar month to the last day, or it'll be a date specified on your bills right the way through to the same date of the next month. My bill for example shows usage charges up to 15th of each month, so my month runs 15th-15th.

13) Are vodafone going to say that the 500mb is a cap and not FUP or unlimited? Can you confirm that this is still a soft-limit, and that the Fair Use Policy will have a limit above 500Mb which use over will be considered abuse?

It's not a cap, as the above explains you won't be charged immediately. Instead, we'll notify you of your usage as per the fair usage policy in your Terms and Conditions.

14) Why was I told that going over my 500MB FUP exactly seven times would trigger charging? Is this correct?

This isn't correct. There isn't a predefined number of occasions. If you continuously exceed your data allowance, you will be notified and contacted first and if you choose to continue using data out of bundle you might incur charges.

15) Where are these charges coming from?? Why can't I find my standard rate of charge, is it because you never had one? And now you are deciding to impose it and you are changing my terms and understanding of our agreement? Can you please provide a link to where I can view the "published rates for my price plan"?

I do remember a time a while ago where we had a standard rate of charge for data of £2 per MB, but this hasn't been listed in our Terms and Conditions for a good while. There isn't currently a standard rate published from what I understand, so the situation is as per 2).

No changes have been made and nobody has been charged yet, so it's not currently possible to request cancellation of your account. With this in mind, there’s no need to write, call or email us to request to cancel. If you’re part of that tiny percentage who does use 500MB or more per month, we’ll notify you as per the message above, but you won’t receive any charges yet.

So according to this it is not possible to request cancellation. That seems wrong to me and i may have to test the theory.

I will of course reply by email and confirm that i had not read the full email attachment.

andywicks

essex_chris wrote: »

So according to this it is not possible to request cancellation. That seems wrong to me and i may have to test the theory.

I am already testing the theory - I have sent of my termination request based on today's announcement, which I have posted earlier in this thread.

Andy

Seajays

Several people are pointing out that the fair usage policy is in the terms and conditions, however the T&Cs do not specify a usage amount. They refer to use that could reasonably be judged as "excessive".

Now that's the part I contest. This is my first smartphone that I've had for less than a month. In that time I have:

* linked it to my exchange email at work
* linked to my pop email at home
* listened a few times to streamed BBC radio
* browsed the internet on my bus journey to and from work

I can't see how any of that can count as excessive - it is after all what I bought the phone to do. Yet in that normal use I am averaging 20MB a day meaning I will consistently fall foul of the ridiculously low usage limit.

So to comply with it I would effectively have to cripple the usefulness of the phone. Why? My usage is not excessive. The limit appears to have been set taking an average of many different devices that clearly would have far lower bandwidth demands than a modern smartphone. That is not appropriate.

DarkConvict

If the terms do not state a charge amount then i would argue it is an unfair term as they are able to just change it whenever they like, £5 for 500MB more, but then in 3 months, £20 for 100MB, there is no limit on what they can do so its completely unfair, to go from £0 per 500MB to £5 per 500MB.

* linked it to my exchange email at work
* linked to my pop email at home
* listened a few times to streamed BBC radio
* browsed the internet on my bus journey to and from work

Exactly most of your usage is just the phone doing its 'normal' work, with only a little data for your actual personal internet usage such as radio via a website.

No point in selling such phones with such a low limit, T-Mobile know this and allow 3GB a month and that is just fair usage. On smartphones 500MB is not fair usage it is limiting the usage of the phone. You will almost need to start turning off features (which you were sold the phone for) in order to use it without be hammered with costs. Unlike phonecalls, data is far more uncontrollable.

thedalmeny

Geez, i feel sorry for you guys... I checked my T-Mobile T&C and then their fair usage policy, just incase they ever tried to pull that to... Thankfully..

- They have no provisions in T&C for fair usage
- Plus their fair usage policy says this clearly:

"*Internet on your phone comes with a fair use policy of 3GB a month. We'll monitor how much you send and receive each calendar month so that we can protect our network for all our internet on your customers. If you use more than your fair use policy amount, we won't charge you any more, but we may restrict how you can use your plan, depending on how often you go over your amount and by how much."

How on earth vodafone can say 500mb is "excessive" when T-Mobile offer 3GB fair usage and also clearly say they'll never charge you, is beyond me.

But this could give people an argument if they ever goto small claims about the merits of "excessive usage", as im sure reflecting on other networks usage policy would clearly show to any judge that 500mb is not even close to considered excessive by other companies in the marketplace.

simon1_2

But we all signed up for the VF contracts knowing there was a 500mb limit. There were people on other threads/forums asking if this would be enough (I read these with interest never having had a smartphone before).

Although I never personally asked VF, I read constantly on this site, avforums and others that VF had said this was a FUP and that you probably would not be charged unless you abused the fair use. Note the word 'probably'. It means that this may change and anyone who claims they were unaware of this is - sorry, don't mean to be rude - fooling themselves.

BUT, I read the long answer that 'Tom' from VF offered and according to that they are NOT charging anyone who immediately strays over the 500mb limit as some posts would have you believe. He states quite clearly that after warnings via texts there will most likely be charges. To me this sums up a FUP perfectly: try to keep within the limit; occasional excesses won't be charged; abusers will pay. I don't see the problem unless, as I said in an earlier post, I am missing something.

You are right though that if VF started to abuse the situation and charge anything they wanted for useage over 500mb, that would be completely unfair.

As far as the argument about whether 500mb is enough - that's a totally different topic.

Finefoot

I have just taken receipt of a htc from 3. 'unlimited' is classified as under 1GB. I was upgrading my old phone, and want to carry on my current contract. The Salesperson said all the new contracs have 500mB as 'reasonable' allowance.
So its not just vodaohone......

bym007

Finefoot wrote: »

I have just taken receipt of a htc from 3. 'unlimited' is classified as under 1GB. I was upgrading my old phone, and want to carry on my current contract. The Salesperson said all the new contracs have 500mB as 'reasonable' allowance.
So its not just vodaohone......

So what happens when you cross 500MB ?

djheath

simon1 wrote: »

But we all signed up for the VF contracts knowing there was a 500mb limit. There were people on other threads/forums asking if this would be enough (I read these with interest never having had a smartphone before).

Although I never personally asked VF, I read constantly on this site, avforums and others that VF had said this was a FUP and that you probably would not be charged unless you abused the fair use. Note the word 'probably'. It means that this may change and anyone who claims they were unaware of this is - sorry, don't mean to be rude - fooling themselves.

BUT, I read the long answer that 'Tom' from VF offered and according to that they are NOT charging anyone who immediately strays over the 500mb limit as some posts would have you believe. He states quite clearly that after warnings via texts there will most likely be charges. To me this sums up a FUP perfectly: try to keep within the limit; occasional excesses won't be charged; abusers will pay. I don't see the problem unless, as I said in an earlier post, I am missing something.

You are right though that if VF started to abuse the situation and charge anything they wanted for useage over 500mb, that would be completely unfair.

As far as the argument about whether 500mb is enough - that's a totally different topic.

Thats the problem. When I renewed my contract with VF the guy catagorically said the internet was "unlimeted", He said it was £5 and I wouldn't ever have to pay anything else. I asked if it was 500mb FUP and he said yes, but it doesn't matter if you go over cos you wont get charged, thats why it is unlimited. For me that sounds great, but now VF are saying you will get charged no matter how much over the 500mb limit. That means it is not unlimited and it there is no FUP no matter what they try and say. VF have countlessly repeated on the previous forum you will be charged if you go over 500mb. That is different to what I was told and what is in my t&c's. VF are also not clear on when they will charge you or whether they will charge you at all. Nothing is clear in the T&C's and their customer support have said contracdicting information multiple times. This is the problem. It is not what peoples signed up for or expected, so we are not fooling ourselves. I would be quite happy if VF said it was a hard cap, it would come into force on the 1st June. Here are the new T&C's. You can read them and make up your mind if you want to pay them, otherwise you have the right to cancel.

They shouldn't inform people by posting an announcment on the 20th page of an internet forumnhoping everyone of their customers has read them!

simon1_2

djheath wrote: »

Thats the problem. When I renewed my contract with VF the guy catagorically said the internet was "unlimeted", He said it was £5 and I wouldn't ever have to pay anything else. I asked if it was 500mb FUP and he said yes, but it doesn't matter if you go over cos you wont get charged, thats why it is unlimited. For me that sounds great, but now VF are saying you will get charged no matter how much over the 500mb limit. That means it is not unlimited and it there is no FUP no matter what they try and say. VF have countlessly repeated on the previous forum you will be charged if you go over 500mb. That is different to what I was told and what is in my t&c's. VF are also not clear on when they will charge you or whether they will charge you at all. Nothing is clear in the T&C's and their customer support have said contracdicting information multiple times. This is the problem. It is not what peoples signed up for or expected, so we are not fooling ourselves. I would be quite happy if VF said it was a hard cap, it would come into force on the 1st June. Here are the new T&C's. You can read them and make up your mind if you want to pay them, otherwise you have the right to cancel.

They shouldn't inform people by posting an announcment on the 20th page of an internet forumnhoping everyone of their customers has read them!

If you were told that then you are right - that's totally misleading. As I said, I never asked but if I had been told in no uncertain terms what you were told then fair enough, you have every right to be peed off.