Relationship advice

viktory

confused1234 wrote: »

OK so not quite so seething now, more reflective and a bit sad really.

He called earlier from work, we'd already had words earlier via text, not ideal but not argumentative either. Initialy he had no idea what I was talking about. He then said I read too much into things (not sure what relevance that has to this though?), and that maybe I should have thought twice before telling him about the story in the paper if I didn't want him to pay any attention.

I just said it feels like another kick in the teeth, considering the discussions we've had about being affectionate, me saying how I felt about my body post-kids and for him to do that was really insensitive to me. I said he doesn't have to agree but that my feelings are valid and I'd like it if he could think about why I felt like that. He replied sorry, he didn't think, then called me up later, what a nice packed lunch I'd done, how are the kids, etc, etc???

I just wish he could listen and not make a blanket "sorry" excuse everything, because I know full well later if I say can we talk, I want to know you understand how I felt, he'll say why, he said sorry and isn't that enough?

I just feel like I can't keep giving and giving, making the effort to invest in our relationship, being told I'm neurotic if I'm not happy about something, and have got to the point where I just hesitate about showing affection because I'm scared of being rejected yet if I don't, he doesn't... I don't feel it's big enough to just walk out on yet I don't know what else to do?

I honestly believe you are expecting too much. He sounds like he is really trying and is being romantic and affectionate in the only way he knows how. Some men are simply not that into kisses and cuddles. I can relate to how he feels about having space - my husband is the same.

My husband adores me, I know he does but he is not into kisses and cuddles so I generally instigate it and he is usually happy to comply. Sometimes my timing is off and he'll tell me. Doesn't mean he doesn't love me, just that he was raised to be less affectionate. Your husband holds your hand and clearly loves you. It was a bit thoughtless for him to look at the pictures, but that is all.

Self esteem comes from within and I think that is where your problems lie - with you. If you are not careful you'll drive your husband away.

confused1234_2

I wrote a long reply but the computer crashed so will try again a little more briefly!

I want to clarify a couple of points. Firstly, the issue with my partner not showing affection is an issue because he DID used to be like this. In fact at one point he went to the lengths of singling out a long-term friend of mine to ask if I was affectionate with previous boyfriends because he wished I was more so! He was very insistent he would love me to show more affection in certain ways so I did, knowing how happy it would make him, and he was

Secondly, I have always been quite self-confident when it comes to my looks. I wouldn't say I'm a supermodel by any stretch, but I've always been happy with how I look and like to make an effort to dress nicely and look presentable. I'd say I don't spend as much time now I have the children but I do still make the effort to look nice.

Probably the only thing I have been unhappy about is my belly, which (understandably) after two children is not quite as it used to be. I have mentioned this to him, he has always said I look great and haven't changed since having the kids.

However recently there have been a handful of comments about my belly. Nothing nasty, but he has poked my belly a couple of times, saying "what's that?" and the other day, looked at it and said, "that's shameful!" I laughed it off as saying it was dinner as we'd just eaten, but that was quite hurtful, especially since I haven't actually put on weight since having the kids. Couple those remarks with the lack of affection and then the ogling the women in the news and you can see how I was quite upset.

I have always been quite proud that I'd never let a man determine how good I felt about myself... but now that has started to eat away at my self-esteem. I am connecting him not wanting to be affectionate with him not fancying me anymore (he says he does?) yet I do feel to some extent he has just become comfy and happy where he is and has stopped making an effort in that respect, which makes me feel like he thinks I'm not worth the effort anymore.

Happy_Girl_2

I'm wondering if you DH isn't actually an affectionate person physically, but acted as if he was in the beginning because he 'felt' that is how he needed to be? Perhaps an ex gf had criticised him for lack of affection, and he didn't want to be dumped by you in the early stages, so put a massive effort into being something that doesn't come naturally to him. I don't think the amount of affection he wants from you necessarily equates to the amount he feels he needs to give back either.

And now you have been together a while, he has gone back to his natural behaviour and you are left feeling short changed?

FWIW like Viktory, I do think he is doing everything within his natural character to show you he loves you. My OH often complains I am unaffectionate because I don't like to sit wrapped up together on the sofa in the evening, and I won't curl up with him to go to sleep. I am an only child and I do like my own space, it's what I'm used to. Over the years I have had to train myself to be more demonstrative as my family are not huggy kissy either, but it will never be a match for someone who wants to be pernanently attached to their partner.

I feel very secure in my relationship because my OH is always trying to kiss/cuddle me, and even though I often think 'back off and give me space man' I am reassured that he loves me because he does it

When he makes an occasional comment that I don't often show him I love him (usually when he is having an insecure moment) I will think "but that isn't true, I made you dinner, I kiss you every morning and evening, I'll randomly tell him I love him, I spent a whole afternoon sorting some stuff out for him etc" but he needs me to stop what I am doing and suddenly kiss him for example. That just doesn't come naturally to me, so I try a bit harder for a few days, then I slip back into my comfort zone, and we go around the circle again a few weeks later!

confused1234_2

Happy_Girl wrote: »

I'm wondering if you DH isn't actually an affectionate person physically, but acted as if he was in the beginning because he 'felt' that is how he needed to be? Perhaps an ex gf had criticised him for lack of affection, and he didn't want to be dumped by you in the early stages, so put a massive effort into being something that doesn't come naturally to him. I don't think the amount of affection he wants from you necessarily equates to the amount he feels he needs to give back either.

And now you have been together a while, he has gone back to his natural behaviour and you are left feeling short changed?

FWIW like Viktory, I do think he is doing everything within his natural character to show you he loves you.

Interesting take, not something I had thought about. I don't know, I hesitate if being honest because I thought we were out of the honeymoon period and he was still being affectionate and I thought that was great:)

The thing is when he does "do" affection, he is quite insistent. Like, he will be quite cheesed off if, say, he went in for a kiss and I might turn my cheek if we're in public because I feel a PDA is a bit inappropriate. He wouldn't let it lie, in a lighthearted but insistent way, he'd carry on until he got that.

I have always thought his previous insistence of showing affection in public was a real male pride thing for him, saying almost, "look, she's taken" if you like.

On the other hand, he found it hilarious the other day when he was off out, usually he'll get ready and pop his head round the door and say he's off, but this time he came in, came over and leaned right in like he was going to kiss me, then when he was super close, snapped the laptop shut in my face in fits of laughter and walked off, only to pop his head round the door again and tell me, "oh but it was funny wasn't it?" As it came the day after we'd had a big chat about how I felt, I actually thought he was a big idiot, in fact thinking about it there have been quite a few instances where he makes what he thinks are jokes about being affectionate, my interpretation being maybe him feeling awkward and trying to lighten the mood in a quite annoying and sometimes hurtful (for me) way?

[Deleted User]

A long while ago.., my OH made a joke of something I'd done in an intimate situation, imitating the same actions. He could not see at all why I was embarrassed and very very deeply hurt. To him it was a joke. I couldn't see how he couldn't see how inappropriate it was and how deeply hurtful. We still wouldn't agree on that one.., and I took an awfully long time to get over it - it affected any future intimate moments for probably a year. But in the end, while it still hurt, I had to accept that it was just an idiotic side of him (possibly a man thing) and he just couldnt and never would understand why it was wrong. I'm afraid some men just don't get these things. It doesn't mean they're awful.., just that they don't get things always.

To your OH what he did was a joke.., to you it had a lot more significance given the present situation (and I can definitely understand why) but I'm afraid however much u talk about it with him.., he'll probably never get it. Men (and women) can be chumps sometimes. While I don't think I'll ever forget my situation I can laugh about how it demonstrates the differences there sometimes are between men and women.

confused1234_2

Yes I know he has a tendency to make jokes out of awkward or tense situations... It's just his way of trying to break the tension.

Why on earth he thinks it's OK to pick on things he knows I'm very sensitive about is beyond me, I'd never think of making a joke about something he's sensitive about. I suppose like you say I'll never understand it, or he won't get it.

He needed a shoulder to cry on last night so I was there for him, but although I wouldn't dream of bringing it up whilst he was upset, I felt quite empty. I felt sad to feel like that, it was lovely he turned to me but I feel my resentment stewing away underneath.

Not sure how to move forward, I don't want to be a bitter person! I like the idea of explaining being affectionate as something I need right now rather than a "fault" of his... My worry with this is being rejected again. I know I can carry on working on me and how I feel and see myself, which can only be a positive thing. I do feel the comments about how I look are unacceptable though so I will address those, again I worry about the blanket "sorry" as a cure-all rather than him "hearing" what I'm saying, not sure how I deal with that.

DevilsAdvocate1

While I can see that this is upsetting you, it might have to be something you have to choose to live with or risk losing him. I can't think of anything worse than living with someone who analyses every situation and works out the bad side, when the reality is likely different.

I had a best friend some years ago. We saw each other nearly everyday and I thought the world of her. After 3 years or so, she started to analyse everything I said and did. We had argument after argument and I felt that I was walking on eggshells all the time. I didn't mean any of the things that she thought, but no matter how much I tried to explain she could not see it. When she rang to tell me that she was pregnant I did not know what to say. If I congratulated her and she was not pleased about the situation then she would tell me off for being insensitive (she had only just met her boyfriend). If I didn't and she was pleased (she had always wanted a baby) then again she would tear strips off me. I tried to do a combination of both and it didn't really work. I cared for my friend so much, but she couldn't see it. Eventually, I had to let the friendship go for my own sanity. I still miss her friendship.

I do think you are expecting too much. And if you keep on and on at him you run the risk of driving him away.

D.

sueeve

I wonder how long you have been together. Relationships do change through the years, not better or worse, just different. And we don't necessarily change at the same speed as our partners. A lot of what you write rings bells with me; he just says 'I can't change the way I am'. I have a quite strict personal attitude to divorce for myself, and that has helped me to come to turn with the change.
and
Men and women are frequently different about the way they see emotions, behaviour and so on. I think what matters is the way we see that difference, as interesting or a threat.
It does sound as though some sort of counselling together might help. I wonder what he does for a living. When relations of mind needed this support they discovered that the very large company he worked for had finance in place. I say this because Relate can mean a very long wait for what will seem to you to be quite urgent.

JoJoB

You know what, I don't think it is a "man" thing. I think that's demeaning to men, actually, to suggest that they simply don't know any better. And I think it is the experience of many women (and men!) that a situation like this is a very real relationship problem rather than an example of intrinsic differences between the sexes.

OP you say in the beginning the roles were reversed - that he was more physically affectionate than you, and he went so far as to question your friends on the matter. Yet now, when you are feeling the same way he is basically not listening to you - fobbing you off with examples of what he has done for you in the way of washing up or making tea when you both know that isn't the issue. There may be things going on that are affecting his romantic engagement with you - not necessarily anything "bad" but things that might be happening unconsciously - parenthood, hitting middle age, work concerns, his own feelings of getting older/feeling unattractive/feeling insecure, childhood issues surfacing once he has his own kids, etc etc etc. could be anything really - but i would bet a million quid it isn't anything to do with your post-baby tummy.

Sometimes, when things aren't going too well and you're not connecting either one of you might point out physical features of your partner that maybe aren't perfect. But when things are going well these things are invisible or just don't matter in terms of being attracted to one another.

From what you have described I think he sounds a bit like he's on autopilot. It's certainly not the level of affection i would expect and I have been married 19 years. We all have different needs and expectations, but it doesn't sound like you are being overly needy. It sounds like he is switching off a little and you are right to question what is going on.

Counselling is certainly a good idea though he may be resistant if he thinks there is nothing wrong! Otherwise I would echo what others have said here - shake things up a little yourself. Be cheerful and confident even when you don't feel it too much inside, be romantic and affectionate yourself without expectation of anything in return initially and generally change the atmosphere in the household, make things a bit more lighthearted and refrain from talking about the disparity in levels of affection for a little while. Just see if there are little things that can be done to bring you closer together for thenext few weeks and see if that leads to any open exchanges between you both.

I don't think you are overstating the problem.

Ilovecubbage

I could have well have writen this myself a few years ago.

WELCOME TO THE MARRIED LIFE!

If my hubby fetched me a choc. bar or anything I would kiss him to death. He will not even put a tea bag in a cup for me nor ask me if I want one a cup when he makes himself a cuppa. I could be standing right next to him , still wount get it! So consider yourself lucky! Your hubby sounds like a dream to me.:)

Holding hand fine before marriage , ohh not now too imbarassing . Hey what if someone sees us. ( been married, had kids & had sex for years, but not holding hands in public!!! )
You are SATHM I guess and try to be perfect for him. \Yes he is happy.
I think men do become selfish once they`ve been married for some time and everything is done for them.

My advise for you is go and get some friend to fill your free time, go for lunch or play a sport, walk, anything, get a dog to hugg in the evening , when watching telly. Do anything that makes you happy even if it cost his money Read the book "Men are from Mars wumen are from Venus" - read thoroughly, please.

My hubby is just like that "why spoil something which is already good".
Try to do something than pester him for attention, this will defo make him pull away from you and you get even less attantion, like others said. Please don`t talk to him about it , it will be a torcher, like pulling his teeth whiles alive.

Just try to smile and be nice to him, in his mind it will mean that he is doing everithing right and will look forward to bedtime with you. You need pationce, but you will get there.

I suggest you get a hobby or go out on your own , he will think you treated yourself to something and feel happy with himself that he contributed to it by paying for it and giving you the presses time on your own , the one thing that he values so much himself.

This will sound very cunning and it`s not done intentionaly, but when it comes to cuddels and bed time stuff he is a real magic. I think this is the time I will kind of use him as the foreplay will last for a very long time ( probably as I don`t get any attantion during the day)if he wants fomething in return. Some nights he wount botther because it takes too long , but who is missing out?
So we are both happy in our own way.

Try to be happy and learn to love what you have.

Well if nothing else atleast I made some of you lought, me hopes