Diplomatic dilemma re: in-laws and moving - any advice?

puddy

it would worry me that they have keys, not that they would rob you, but in terms of insurance, you know what commpanies are like, any excuse not to pay out, a company could use that as a reason not to pay if something got nicked

but really, isnt it bizarre that you are having to think about how to 'reclaim' a house that will be yours, but you have never lived in, because they seem to have first stake on it (in their heads)

in some ways, it would be better if it comes from both of you, not just your OH becuase whereas the current property is hers and they are her parents, this property is going to be yours too, they are not your parents, it changes the dynamic completely in terms of ownership

Errata

New house, new life, new hobby ? How about nudism ? That should give any guests pause for thought !
Actually it's a fair point if you walk around in the buff early mornings and late at night doing ablutions and getting dressed etc. Most couples do, but perhaps have to be a lot more circumspect when the outlaws are staying with them, and if they stay frequently and for long periods the couple whose house it is can't live in it as they're entitled to do.

Jowo_2

Ninky,

I really think that an unpaid guest with a property elsewhere, even if they are given a key, and even if they have their post sent there, and even if its overseas, doesn't achieve any extra rights at all just because of this, or the duration of their stay. After all, the point is that it's not their home - they live the majority of time somewhere else and own their own property.

A guest has absolutely no security of tenure and can be kicked out either straight off, or with modest notice. If a guest refuses to leave, the householder can simply ask the police to remove them.

An unmarried childless partner who is not a joint tenant or joint owner also has minimal rights and limited security of tenure, too.

I do not think the OPs in-laws can be conflated with a live-in partner who contributes towards the rent or mortage and who may have a beneficial interest in it.

A parent can freely and legally chuck their adult children out of the house and I expect that houseowners can do it to their visitors, too.

If you work through the tenancy checker on the following wizard, you will see that the in-laws can be booted out fairly easily and have no redress. The duration of what constitutes reasonable notice is not provided.

You are an excluded occupier

You don't have many rights as an excluded occupier, which may make it difficult for you to enforce any other tenancy rights...

• Your landlord does not need to prove a legal reason or get a court order in order to evict you.
• You are entitled to ‘reasonable notice’ but this does not have to be in writing.
• If you cannot negotiate with your landlord to stay longer, you will need to find alternative accommodation quickly.

If you cannot negotiate with your landlord, you may have to consider putting up with things as they are or finding somewhere else to live.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/downloads_and_tools/tenancy_checker

getmore4less

Deleted_User wrote: »

But what's it got to do with them? We should pick a place to move to based on OUR needs, not theirs?

Granny lives in South London (Croydon ish) - 45 minutes drive from us (Bromley).

You missed the point,

You implied one of the reason they stay is because it is near the Airport.

This is a red herring they stay because you let them so where ever you move they will still stay with you.

IF granny was the priority they would not be 45mins away.

If granny is in/out of hospital can't they stay at her place when she is in and find somewhere else closer when at home.

If this is so important I think you should not have even looked at moving without having this sorted.

It has allready gone to far since they have done the drive by of their new home(in their minds).

N79

ninky wrote: »

not true. if someone has established somewhere as their home they cannot just be kicked out. having their belongings and post directed to the property along with having a set of keys would be more than enough evidence of them having established this as a home.

the same goes if you allow a partner to move in with you. even if they are not on the lease etc you have to go through certain proceedures to move them out. i think it's 30 days notice or something.

Rubbish - they would be excluded occupiers occupying the property under licence. They would have absolutely no security of tenure (unless the licence contains written provision to the contrary) and could be evicted at the LL's wim and without notice.

To the OP you need to set some ground rules now. Until you do you will not get control of your house. I know how hard it is to set the ground rules but once you (well your OH) have set them then it will get easier.

Jowo_2

N79 wrote: »

Rubbish - they would be excluded occupiers occupying the property under licence. They would have absolutely no security of tenure (unless the licence contains written provision to the contrary) and could be evicted at the LL's wim and without notice.

To be fair, the Shelter website tenancy checker did indicate that they could fall within the excluded occupier category and be subject to reasonable notice (though I do think the fact that its not their primary residence tips them into guest status and as non-paying visitors, they have no rights).

In a worse case scenario as its fairly complex, however, the OP could accidentally be conferring onto them modest housing rights. Meaning, in the event of a big bust up during a visit, they could refuse to leave the property and the OP is stuck with them for a bit. Unlikely to happen though but worth considering the risk.

Catblue

Difficult situation. 5 months of the year is beyond a joke. I rather get the impression that they believe that you are choosing to move to a 4 bedroom house in order to provide them with more space. I also think it is up to your OH to have the conversation about where they intend to store their stuff when you move.

The reality is that you'll be in a chaotic state anyway when you move (most people are, with boxes over the place etc.), so if they don't get the message immediately then you are still in a good position. Make doing up the spare room your LAST priority in the house and use it to store all the decorating stuff in the meantime. While that is going on then you can just say "Sorry, we really can't accommodate anyone right now". Also, it is going to take you time to save up money to furnish this room, right?

When the spare room is eventually done (and it could take years really), then you are in a good position in that presumably you get notice of when they are coming?

If so, then you can easily invite a mate to stay for a few days to coincide with the period that the in-laws intended to stay. You just have to say "Sorry, got a mate staying then. It is great having a spare room that we can offer to all our friends and family for a short period".

Do the same thing the next time they ask as well. The third time you can then allow them to use the spare room and be gracious hosts.

Even the thickest of skins would get the message that you are both very accommodating people, but do not wish to live in a house share permanently.

Fire_Fox

Deleted_User wrote: »

Sorry if this is a bit off-topic but this seemed like the best place to put this thread:

At present I live with my fiancee, in a 2-bedroom house that she owns in her name. As others may be aware, we're buying a 4-bed place together in joint names at present and should be moving in a few months.

All fine, except they don't have a home over here any more...so guess where they always end up staying? Of course, our house. Which is totally fine, but the issue I have is that our second bedroom at present is very much 'THEIR ROOM' and rather than asking us whether they can stay, they just assume that this is their home when they visit, which - as I said - can sometimes be 5 months in any one year.

But now that we're buying together, I want to lay down the law firmly but fairly at the beginning that they are welcome to stay at any time, but that this is OUR house, not theirs, and that they shouldn't assume that they can stay. Of course, they are more than welcome, but I don't see why we should sacrifice 1/4 of our house just because of their unwise investment in the overseas property market.

As a good example, we met up with them yesterday and my mother-in-law told us that she'd just driven round on a diversion to view our new house to show her husband (who's just flown in from Malta) where they are going to be living! Not where WE are going to be living (my OH and I) but THEY!!! It is not THEIR home!

At present, all of their post gets redirected here, including all their junk mail - and they receive more post at our address than we do. They have a whole room (the master bedroom in fact) all to themselves and all the cupboards are full with their belongings. This bedroom also houses the shower, so when they stay I can't access the shower room and have to go to the gym before work just to wash. Our house is too small for two people - which is why we're moving - let alone for four!

Any ideas for how we can resolve this diplomatically and sensitively? We don't want to turn them away, but I feel they're taking the mickey a bit by camping at our house for 5 months of the year and occupying a room of our house with all their junk...and when we move I want this to stop.

1. Why on earth have you given over your largest bedroom? Pack their stuff up and move in there yourself!!
2. Your OH needs to lay down the law NOT you - firstly because the current house is her house and secondly because they are her parents.
3. Register the in-laws with the mailing preference service and yourselves with Royal Mail door-to-door to stop junk mail.
http://www.mpsonline.org.uk/mpsr/
http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=400126&mediaId=500081
4. As soon as you know when they are coming, fill the house with other guests/ take in paying lodgers to help pay the mortgage.
5. Don't give them keys!!
6. Consider the implications of having another couple living with you and receiving their mail on any application for means-tested benefits, which you may need to do after you start a family.

Really this should have been addressed loooooooong before you considered moving to a four bedroom house. By giving up the master bedroom you have set a precedent, and you will probably start family ructions by refusing to let them stay when you have four bedrooms for one couple. Bet all the siblings have something to say .... If you do address this when you move it's pretty obvious that the impetus is not coming from your OH and you will be blamed.

ninky_2

Jowo wrote: »

To be fair, the Shelter website tenancy checker did indicate that they could fall within the excluded occupier category and be subject to reasonable notice (though I do think the fact that its not their primary residence tips them into guest status and as non-paying visitors, they have no rights).

In a worse case scenario as its fairly complex, however, the OP could accidentally be conferring onto them modest housing rights. Meaning, in the event of a big bust up during a visit, they could refuse to leave the property and the OP is stuck with them for a bit. Unlikely to happen though but worth considering the risk.

they've got all their personal belongings in a room though for 12 months of a year. what is the OP supposed to do about that? i'd have thought they need the inlaws permission to touch the personal belongings and certainly couldn't just throw them onto the street without going through some sort of due process.

N79

ninky wrote: »

they've got all their personal belongings in a room though for 12 months of a year. what is the OP supposed to do about that? i'd have thought they need the inlaws permission to touch the personal belongings and certainly couldn't just throw them onto the street without going through some sort of due process.

No need for permission but yes, if it came to this, there is a process. You would use the normal process for storage and then disposal of the belongings of lodgers and you would need to exercise reasonable care in the discharge of your obligations.