PPC Letter Chains & Court Papers (discussion & comments)

HO87

Danadams wrote: »

Hi there

how do you stop the letters coming. I have now had several "final warning letter" and each time the fine goes up. I am concerned it will soon escalate out of control

Assuming that your letter is in connection with the Civil Enforcement Notice you previously received then there is little you can do to stop the letters coming. However, there are things you can do to reduce the impact they're having on you.

Provided the description of the ticket you gave here (that strongly suggested that it was issued by a private parking company and that it is in no way linked with a council ticket) was accurate then the first thing to realise is that you owe nothing. What you have received is, effectively, a speculative invoice dressed up to look and feel official with a hint of threat about it. It clearly worked as intended!

It would seem that you have followed the advice here - to ignore it - and all that is now happening is that the company are upping the ante - by increasing the amount they claim is owed and by threatening county court, debt collectors and bailiffs - in the hope that by raising the fear level you'll pay up. This is all part of the standard PPC business model and whilst it looks frightening it is all bluff and bluster.

Fundamentals:

The standard PPC business model cannot afford court - for a number of reasons:

If they were to do so their businesses would fail because they run with minimum staff and in order to maintain cash flow they must issue tickets. They simply cannot afford staff to be occupied in pursuing single debts at court.

Remember: these "tickets" are issued by companies. This is about business i.e. making money, not the enforcement of law regardless of how hard a PPC might try to persuade you otherwise.

Most importantly, contract law - which is what these so-called tickets are based upon - is not quite as clear cut in certain areas as PPC's claim and in others, that they try to skim over or ignore, it is clear.

In your case the only person who could ever have entered into a contract (if it was possible to have done so) was the driver. If you were not the driver then you have nothing to do with it and are under not obligation whatsoever to provide the companies with their details.

Some companies will threaten you with the might of the law to force you to divulge who the driver was and that the courts have that power is not disputed. However, the companies also know that it is rarely used (because it is regarded as draconian) and only then in very serious cases that would tie them up in court for even longer. Besides, the pursuit of such a piddling alleged parking debt is most certainly not serious.

They might then attempt to argue that case law allows them to pursue the registered keeper of the car on the basis of presumed "agency" - that the driver was acting on behalf of the owner. When things get this far you know you're winning because this hangs on a single case that dates back to Victorian times, was regarded as an anomaly at the time and has been superseded on numerous occasions since. The essential element of contract law that actually applies is that of "privity of contract" - which, in essence, means that only those who were party to a contract can be held to its terms. You were not a party to any contract. Clear?

Lastly, as far as these companies are concerned and given the standard business model they all employ their threats are based on a numbers game meaning that they can make a handsome profit from a return of, maybe just 40%. Why tie themselves up in court at expense beyond that they can recover when they can more than survive of those people who pay up straight away - especially when they know that the chances of them succeeding at slim?

Some companies do occasionally do court - they need to in order to maintain the illusion - but the numbers are very, very small. There is also reason to believe that some cases are put up jobs using stooges again, to allow PPC's to maintain the illusion because an illusion it is.

However, thanks to the efforts here, on CAG, PePiPoo and elsewhere people are resisting and - on the very rare occasions that court proceedings ensue cases are defended and PPC's are being regularly spanked - as they should be.

You owe no one anything. Stand your ground and don't be frightened of a piece of paper as there is nothing to escalate.

Danadams

trisontana wrote: »

You can't. What do you mean by "escalating out of control"?. Are you worried that there will be so much junk-mail from them that you won't be able to open your front door for the stuff?

Thanks - what I mean is that the fine becomes hundreds of pounds and then they do pursue it -PS it is a private company not a council ticket. I originally sent one letter back stating I was not the driver

Coupon-mad

Danadams wrote: »

Thanks - what I mean is that the fine becomes hundreds of pounds and then they do pursue it -PS it is a private company not a council ticket. I originally sent one letter back stating I was not the driver

No they just send threatograms, that's what this thread is about.

This is not a discussion thread, please take it to a new thread if you have queries but it's really simple. If you get a Parking Charge Notice (private) just ignore it and the letters and they go away.

sd12

I parked on a disabled spot only because my 3 year old son had problems breathing due to his health problem, he then started vomiting so we quickly found a spot which was a disabled spot and rushed him to a nearby superstore where they had toilet facilites. When we came back to our car I found a parking notice. I appealed and wrote back to UK Parking Control Ltd (UKPC) who responded back and said that I'll have to pay because I should have noticed the disabled bay but no mention of my sons health issues even though I've also send his medical consultants health warning letter stating he has breathing problems...! I have not paid and over the weekend I received a 'Notice to Owner' from a Parking collections company requesting payment - what should I do, any advice would be appreciated please. Thanks SD12

trisontana

sd12 wrote: »

I parked on a disabled spot only because my 3 year old son had problems breathing due to his health problem, he then started vomiting so we quickly found a spot which was a disabled spot and rushed him to a nearby superstore where they had toilet facilites. When we came back to our car I found a parking notice. I appealed and wrote back to UK Parking Control Ltd (UKPC) who responded back and said that I'll have to pay because I should have noticed the disabled bay but no mention of my sons health issues even though I've also send his medical consultants health warning letter stating he has breathing problems...! I have not paid and over the weekend I received a 'Notice to Owner' from a Parking collections company requesting payment - what should I do, any advice would be appreciated please. Thanks SD12

Could you please start your own thread. And welcome to MSE.

bikin1

Hi Everyone, I am new to here!
Can you tell me if NCP is the same as NGP? As I do not see any templates from NGP.

Thanks

Coupon-mad

No, New Generation Parking are a different company.

But Google their name with the word 'ignore' and read any forum results from here, Pepipoo or ConsumerActionGroup. You will see it is - of course - safe to ignore them, same as all PPCs.

Do you have an example of their letters to post here, or will you have a set soon? If so then please pm Crabman with links to copies with any identifying details covered. We would like to be able to show newbies examples of all possible letters to ignore.

Thanks in advance if you can provide them!

bikin1

Thanks very much for the info, I have just recieved a PCN from NGP I will upload shortly!

Am I right in ignoring them completely?

Thanks again

Coupon-mad

bikin1 wrote: »

Thanks very much for the info, I have just recieved a PCN from NGP I will upload shortly!

Am I right in ignoring them completely?

Thanks again

Yes. Google their name with the word 'ignore' and read any forum results from here, Pepipoo or ConsumerActionGroup. You will see it is - of course - safe to ignore them, same as all PPCs.

wizziwig

Hi, firstly, let me say that I have had all those letters from the list you posted. All of them.

Back in 2009, when the recession was taking it's first bite out of things, I (a driving instructor) had to take my pupil into town, again, because she had omitted to draw my fee out of her bank, again. This is in itself, a pain in the neck, but as it is my money, I have to comply. Chorlton-!!!-Hardy, Greater Manchester.

I stopped in the car park, thinking she would only be a minute, as the cash machine was on the building in front of us. She was gone for 15 minutes. I was furious. When she arrived with three bags of fruit and vegetables. Can you believe that. This was my time she was wasting. I could hardly contain myself. However, I had not noticed that it was a pay and display carpark. Ooops!

No parking attendant challenged me, so I drove off, still very annoyed about how I have been treated by this customer.

A fortnight passed and I had to attend a meeting in Chorlton. This time I had noticed the parking conditions, paid for 2 hours. I actually parked next to the machine. It requires you to put your reg number in. Apparently, there are cameras on all the entrances, and they watch you. If your number does not correspond to the ticket machine, you are fined.

I had not idea what to do when there came through the post, 2 separate fine notices, two weeks apart but both sharing the same pay-by date.

I tried to contest these. The first transgression was mine, even though it was by accident. The second, 2 hour stay, was not my fault. I put my details into the machine, it gave me a receipt, and because I normally save all my receipts, put in into the door pocket of the car, and the wind blew it away the next time I opened the door. I just had to be the very ticket I really needed to keep.

Excell send me a photo. Yes, that was me. They also send me a list of the car reg number (I'm not sure that they should be sharing that information with me), of those cars which paid for parking, at the same time as me, but my details were not there. That could have been fixed and I told them that. Of course, all the time they are refusing to bend. It told them I could afford to pay out £120 just like that, and that the tickets were dated 2 weeks apart, but the fines were not. Unfair. Eventually, they suggested part payments.

I had to pay installments, which finished in Dec 2009. I did manage to pay this, but because one of the payments was a few days late and short by about £5, they bunged another £100 on top. Total madness.

I wrote letter after letter, to the managing director, and so on. I got no reply to that letter. I believed that they had accepted my explanation, and would not pursue the extra £100. Wrong. 3 months later I received more letters. Threatening letters. I kept up my position and said that their failure to answer my last letter, I took their silence as acceptance, and told them that it is unreasonable to now, after such a long time, start up again. I also said, and I believe that this was the clincher, I told them that they were unreasonable, that the fees were for nothing, as i had purchased nothing, rented nothing and no value had been added to anything. That the installment plan had been imposed on me, and the terms were suggested but not accepted, and I did not agree with they way they operated.

I also did not digging and found that they are continually in conflict with people, all over the country.

I have since received no further correspondence from them, and so I have avoided that extra £100 fine. It pays to be a bit bloshy at times. Put Up a Good Fight. Thanks to Martin and the gang for all the help. I am a convert.
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