e2save problem (merged threads)

Guys_Dad

mobilejunkie wrote: »

Sometimes they do! As for the "calendar months" definition (Guy's Dad), it is an incorrect assumption. READ THE REST OF THE T&C - usually they go on to give a clear and specific example which sometimes contradicts the assumption just made. I would rely on the example rather than the supposition.

Mobile Junkie :- I did read T & C in the Mulerider's post. Unless I have misread the wording, I took the section from "REDEMPTION INFO (12 Months FREE by redemption): YOUR CHOSEN PLAN – with our Special Offer!Offer Summary" right up to the bit in red to be have been sent by E2Save at commencement of contract in May.

The following text that specified the actual bill dates I took as having come in on the email received today in December, particularly as it referred to the actual months he should be using to claim.

I haven't seen exactly what the original T&C contained, but unless there was a comparable example included, then the common acceptance of calendar month in English speech and law would be the point to use as a challenge.

However, I do appreciate your enormous experience in dealing with this mob and you probably know the wording of the various T&C off by heart, so I certainly wouldn't wish to disagree with your advice. But my original point that, if contradictory wording is contained in information sent by them at the same time and the court is persuaded that the reason for this was to deceive and negate obligations to pay, then they would lose any case.

mobilejunkie

The bit you read is an extract. Only the whole counts and that is not reproduced on here. There is a history of people being mislead by this company - all on purpose. If you intend to go to court with this outfit (as many have needed to) it's important you know precisley what you're doing. Taking isolated or subsequent "bits" can lead people into trouble. The email reply is helpful in such a case - but you're right, I DO know the t&c VERY well - and they constantly change. I would rather comply with everything and rely on the legal ones - I also always have a fall-back position and watch like a hawk. The idea that calendar month is as it seems is an old chestnut with them. This goes back over two years. It has now been re-employed in a clear attempt to confuse those who have "mastered" the new way of doing things - and it is clearly succeeding! I look after at least three of these particular contracts and have looked at this particular issue since it emerged a few months ago. Having tested it out, I know my advice is sound. In any case - waiting until the later month might mean you have to sue. Being declined on an early month (not that it is, even though it was previously!) gives you the fall-back position I referred to earlier.

mulerider

Thanks to everyone for their advice and input. I've gone with the safe option and sent the October bill even though I'd rather fight them through MCOL. One of the main reasons why I decided to go with the safe option is the contract is in my name but it's my mother-in-law that actually uses the phone. After this contract has finished in a year she'll be taking out her own contract as it's more hassle than it's worth.

E2Save have moved the goalposts yet again but I'd rather have the cheque than have the trouble of fighting for the cash back. I'd rather play these cowboys at their own game.

Just a quick update, I've just had my last £88.00 cheque for a 12 month price match deal but have stayed well clear of these 'cowboys' for my latest mobile contract.

mulerider

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Mobile Junkie :- I did read T & C in the Mulerider's post. Unless I have misread the wording, I took the section from "REDEMPTION INFO (12 Months FREE by redemption): YOUR CHOSEN PLAN – with our Special Offer!Offer Summary" right up to the bit in red to be have been sent by E2Save at commencement of contract in May.

The following text that specified the actual bill dates I took as having come in on the email received today in December, particularly as it referred to the actual months he should be using to claim.

I haven't seen exactly what the original T&C contained, but unless there was a comparable example included, then the common acceptance of calendar month in English speech and law would be the point to use as a challenge.

However, I do appreciate your enormous experience in dealing with this mob and you probably know the wording of the various T&C off by heart, so I certainly wouldn't wish to disagree with your advice. But my original point that, if contradictory wording is contained in information sent by them at the same time and the court is persuaded that the reason for this was to deceive and negate obligations to pay, then they would lose any case.

This e-mail contains IMPORTANT information of how to claim your line rental / cheque back reward as part of your recently placed order. Please read the redemption info below for a step by step guide to the procedure for claiming your gift.

The exact T&Cs are below:

---

Your Unique Order Reference Number is ******

---

REDEMPTION INFO (12 Months FREE by redemption):
YOUR CHOSEN PLAN – with our Special Offer!Offer Summary:

18-month contract with O2 'O2 600 min + 500 sms 18M' on a basic monthly line rental of £35.00 per month.

Our Offer:

12 Months FREE by redemption
Saving £420.00 (over 18-month period)

Effective average monthly rental - £11.67 (over 18-month period)

Please note: the above calculations are based on the basic line rental and do not include billing.

GETTING YOUR CASHBACK – it's really easy!
(But remember to follow the rules below)Your £420.00 cashback needs to be claimed by you in 5 stages as detailed below.

Claim 1 – Send in the bill dated 6 calendar months from the date of connection, you will receive £84.00 by cheque within 28 days.

i.e. If you purchased on the 1st April 2008, you need to send in a bill that is dated within September 2008, your claim window is 60 days from the date of that bill.

Claim 2 – Send in the bill dated 9 calendar months from the date of connection, you will receive £84.00 by cheque within 28 days.

Claim 3 – Send in the bill dated 12 calendar months from the date of connection, you will receive £84.00 by cheque within 28 days.

Claim 4 – Send in the bill dated 15 calendar months from the date of connection, you will receive £84.00 by cheque within 28 days.

Claim 5 – Send in the bill dated 18 calendar months from the date of connection, you will receive £84.00 by cheque within 28 days.

Each of the above claims must:

be received by us within 60 days of the date on the bill
be made out on our official claim form (available online at https://www.secure-mobiles.com/files/pdfs/e2_Claim_Form_Jan_08.pdf)
be accompanied by your relevant network bill, as stated above (photocopies accepted).
This bill must:

mobilejunkie

You connected at the end of May; that was the time they changed interpretations. The copy above is in the email sent afterwards; I always ignore those (and have been warnng against taking much notice of them, along with account dates on their website, for as long as I can remember). In this instance though the email APPEARS consistent with the actual t&c at the time - and people REALLY need to copy and follow THOSE!

NOW - using this example (and assuming it is the same as the ones at the poinjt of sale) clearly shows that it IS the October bill you need to send. The example above shows connection on 1st April and requires the bill dated "within September". Try counting! Bill dates from E2Save contracts tend to be just after connection. 1st April to around 1st September is actually FIVE MONTHS. SIX CLEAR months would in fact be 1st October. A court might agree with me - I'd only fancy my chances there had I sent the September bill and had it rejected for being too early before sending the October one.

In your case, NOT sending the October one could well lead into a court battle with an uncertain outcome.

All that I said before is clear and correct and well known to me.

There really is nothing new under the sun. E2Save used these tactics years ago (as I have also said). Their notorius "price-match" t&c were a) a lie (didn't price match ANYTHING!) and b) STOLEN from another dealer who had follwed them for about a year (so I was quite glad to see E2Save steal them, since it created problems for them which they were stupid enough to not foresee). All the other variations (automaitc first cheque etc.) are also not at all new and are very familiar to me. However, they perceive an advantage in chopping and changing to catch many people out - and they do.

I am rarely wrong where E2Save is concerned - and have thousands of pounds successfully back from them, as have the other people I look after. Anyone thinking and advising differently ought to put the time and legwork in and not rely on a handful of contracts at different times. I run many all the time and have done for a long time - and I watch and research every day.

dov

This has all been discussed before - see my post back in April around the time e2save changed the t&c:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=10453121#post10453121

Having a look at e2save now and here's a full quote for instalment 1 (from order summary/description page just prior to checkout).

Instalment 1 - You will need to claim by sending the bill dated 6 calendar months from the month that you received your handset and you have 60 days from this date to submit your claim. Send us your claim form and monthly bill showing your name, address, mobile number and tariff you are connected to. (This bill must be no older than 60 days when we receive it and have no balance brought forward.)

i.e. if you purchased on the 1st of April 2008, you need to send in a bill that is dated within September 2008, your claim window is 60 days from the date of that bill.

It sounds like they now believe(based on the above example):
month 1 - April
month 2 - May
month 3 - June
month 4 - July
month 5 - August
month 6 - September

And they only provide a short t&a and no pdf compared to the old Price Match terms.

As mobilejunkie said, its important to note is that the email they send after purchase is NOT the legal t&c and often contradicts the legal ones. The legal t&c are the ones just prior to submitting your purchase.

mobilejunkie

That is correct; you have been paying close attention, obviously. I will admit that I almost got these ones wrong myself, but realised before any claims were needed there was ambiguity and had to look VERY closely until I realised what they were up to. Plain sailing since then - but it is easy to be complacent and they really do everything they can to mislead and confuse.

It's great to see someone following the groundrules with these things. There aren't really any shortcuts in order to cover yourself and avoid future problems (or overcome them if/when they still occur).

dov

I don't think anyone could be certain how e2save would handle those ambiguous t&c at the time. But your general advice to cover yourself is the way to go and mitigates the ambiguity.

dnevnasoba

Sorry, meybe I'm not at the wright place, but I have a question. I'm from Croatia and I would order mobile phones from e2save. Do the do that? Because I found some adverse i y send e-mail and somebody answer me, but I'm afraid that this could be a frod.

dnevnasoba

does enybody know?