I want to want children, anyone else the same?

ceridwen

ceridwen wrote: »

As someone with only limited time and energy available - I do know for a fact that I certainly wouldnt have done half of it if I had had a family. I can only speak for myself here - other people may have a lot more energy/determination than I have myself and might have managed as much even with children to bring up. But I know - of a certainty - that I myself definitely wouldnt have managed to do what I did if I had had other responsibilities - I'm just not that energetic/determined...

By the time I had done "family duties"/been with husband/had the time to myself that I personally require at regular intervals - there honestly wouldnt have been anything left of me for anything else (no matter how much I wanted to). I think there are probably quite a few women in a similar position - and it really does boil down to competing priorities for many of us - because we arent Superwoman (darn it....)

The point being made here is that some of us have lower energy levels than others - I look with envy at the energy levels that some other people have, but have to accept my own personal limitations in that respect.

Also - we all vary as to how much time we need on our own - some of us need a noticeable amount more than others.

We all adapt to our own personalities/abilities/etc.

I am inclined to believe that there are probably quite a few other people with limited energy levels and/or high level needs for a decent amount of time on our own - and we simply could not manage both a "family" life and a decent "contribution to Society". We are human after all.....(darn it...):rotfl:

For those who have higher energy levels and/or dont need so much "solo" time - I can only say "I envy you".

ceridwen

ninky wrote: »

just wanted to say that although i'm pretty sure i'm not going to have my own kids i do appreciate other people's children. and i hope i can keep my friendships with my friends who do have children - not all in conventional ways, i have a couple of lesbian mum friends. i do like having children in my life. i very much enjoy being an auntie for example. i just don't want the responsiblity of my own.

the one sort of parents that really annoy me though are those who say i don't like children but i like my own. to me that is the most selfish attitude. sorry to those who have said that here. but i can't understand it.

I must admit that I find that puzzling myself. The people I know who are most definitely good/loving parents and obviously wanted their own children do tend to be people who just love children per se. I rate my own father in this category - someone who just automatically loves all children - and I felt/feel that makes him one very suitable parent to have.

ceridwen

Churchmouse wrote: »

On another tack raised during this thread, is it really helpful to those of us that have more than two children, to insult us, our intelligence and to insinuate our dreadful harming of the planet? I don't judge anybody for wanting or not wanting children. I wish people only had children because they really, really wanted them, then perhaps I could have my 4 without criticism.

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Actually - I have often thought "if only the only people who had children were those who really really wanted them/planned for them/etc" and realised that there "might" be space enough possibly for people to have more than two if no-one ever ever had a child they didnt actually really want IYSWIM.

I suspect there might be enough space on the Planet for all child-loving parents to have four - if absolutely no-one had a child unless they really really wanted it. The thing is that ITRW there are a heck of a lot of people having children who dont actually really really want children - because they are having them to get the State to provide them with an income/because they cant be bothered to take effective "precautions" or for whatever other reason they become parents even though they havent actively chosen to be.

So - one has to take account of all these non- parent-like people who become parents (as well as those who actually WANT to be parents). One has to deal with the world as it IS - and not as one wants it to be.

I would be the first person to agree that people can have 4 children if they WANT to - provided no-one had any children UNLESS they actively WANTED to. Also provided that those with children did not expect those of us who have chosen not to have children to help pay for theirs.......(I was only reading a post earlier today by someone who I know is pretty decently-off - but they were getting ready to hold out their hand for a hand-out from the rest of us....This is one of the things that drives the rest of us to despair....).

Silaqui

I could have absolutely written the first post here - and in fact, I did post a similar thing a while back and got a great many interesting replies.

I have no interest whatsoever in babies and little kids, especially babies, I find them ugly and irritating, and :oI hate the smell of them - sour milk and talc ewww. I hate the thought of pregnancy, breastfeeding, it all turns my stomach. I hate the idea of having to spend all day with someone who is so needy, and who you can't even have a converstaion with! I know, I know, it sound crazy! My mum has admitted (only recently - her views haven't influenced mine) that she couldn't stand me and my sister when we were babies - to her it felt like it was all take take take - she couldn't go to work, go out without a huge rigamarole.

BUT what I do want is the fulfillment of having a child. I want to have a relationship with them like the one that I have now (aged 25) with my own parents. I also don't want to deprive my parents of being grandparents.

I have always been a bit of a control freak, and I think that could be another reason for my indecision. As much as you can be a good parent, you can't really control how your child turns out. They could be intelligent, useful members of society; on the other hand, they could become addicted to drugs, they could murder someone. I don't know how I could live with myself if my child turned out like that.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, and now I'm just rambling so I will stop as I haven't contributed much to the discussion!

HariboJunkie

ceridwen wrote: »

One last thought here is that there is a thread here somewheres on MSE - entitled something like "Pregnancy's best kept secrets". (I think its on the Health and Beauty Board??)

For anyone contemplating having children - I really do think it would be a most instructive read. I read my way through about 2/3 pages of it once before thinking "gawd - I didnt realise it was THAT bad.....:eek: and I thought pregnancy and childbirth were pretty damn awful...but I didnt know the half of it judging by the tales some women on here are telling". The phrase "misery loves company" was definitely coming to mind about those women who try to persuade other women to join them in having children.....:cool:

To me - if I had wanted and had children - then I would have laid it on the line exactly how it had all been for me to any friends who were considering having children. But I really did wonder if a bit of a "veil is drawn" normally about everything thats involved normally by most women...


I don't understand this. You are referring to a thread where women are completely honest about everything their pregnancy entailed but are saying that women are secretive about it. :huh:
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And I really do feel its necessary to clarify that the contributions I see women making to the world arent just restricted to doing well in a career (as opposed to working in a supermarket for instance). I have hardly had a "sparkling career" myself - but I HAVE contributed rather a lot over some years that I would simply not have had the time/energy to do if I had been tied up with childcare issues. Paid work is not the only work that has value in society - in fact I would say it comes bottom of the list of likely "valuable" work in society for most of us...

I, for one, am pretty proud of some of the voluntary work I have done over many years. As someone with only limited time and energy available - I do know for a fact that I certainly wouldnt have done half of it if I had had a family. I can only speak for myself here - other people may have a lot more energy/determination than I have myself and might have managed as much even with children to bring up. But I know - of a certainty - that I myself definitely wouldnt have managed to do what I did if I had had other responsibilities - I'm just not that energetic/determined...

By the time I had done "family duties"/been with husband/had the time to myself that I personally require at regular intervals - there honestly wouldnt have been anything left of me for anything else (no matter how much I wanted to). I think there are probably quite a few women in a similar position - and it really does boil down to competing priorities for many of us - because we arent Superwoman (darn it....)

I'm pretty proud of the voluntary work I do too. And I can state absolutely that I would be doing none of it if I didn't have children. If I was concentrating on a career with no family to care for there is no way I would sit on half the committees I do, nor would I run a childrens' gardening club or help out with children in the community. Having children made me realise that I wanted to help other children, not just my own. SO between that, caring for my family and working part time in an environmentally aware business, I am happy enough with my contribution to the world. :cool:
As you say though, we are all different with varying energy levels and different ideas of what our potential or contribution should be.

ceridwen wrote: »

(I was only reading a post earlier today by someone who I know is pretty decently-off - but they were getting ready to hold out their hand for a hand-out from the rest of us....This is one of the things that drives the rest of us to despair....).

Until such benefits are means tested, no one can blame a parent for taking a "hand out" that they are entitled to whether they are well off or not.

Nitha

With regards to all these 'bigger picture' arguments the thing is we couldn't sustain a world where everyone had lots of kids due to overpopulation but in the same breath if no one had kids who'd care for us in our old age (ie future Doctor Smith, future Police officer Brown)?

Ceridwen is making some very excellent points. If you have any doubt don't do it. I've read the pregnancy thread, been through a horrific one of my own and am now pregnant with my second 3 years later. I love being a mother, I work hard at it and I've made a lot of sacrifices for it. I've given up clothes, holidays, free time and I'm happier than I've ever been!! If you think I'm insane then you;re probably not ready to have kids.

ninky_2

Churchmouse wrote: »

SandC, I hope you didn't think the above question was directed to you. I couldn't agree more that we all benefit the world in our own way, irrespective of whether or not we happen to have children. I suppose I'm directing the question at those who certainly appear to feel themselves superior because they have opted out of having children.

Just a little further thought that has entered my head.......... I wonder how many of our great scientists, inventors, doctors, researchers etc were third or subsequent children?

hitler was the fourth of six children.....sorry, i couldn't resist...;)

Churchmouse

Well there you go ninky, one for the three children is fine camp :rotfl:



Edited to add : Having just read up on Klara Hitler, Adolf was her fourth-born, but she had lost the first three children already, so I'm assuming the two per family rule would still have permitted his birth :D

skintchick

Silaqui wrote: »

I could have absolutely written the first post here - and in fact, I did post a similar thing a while back and got a great many interesting replies.

I have no interest whatsoever in babies and little kids, especially babies, I find them ugly and irritating, and :oI hate the smell of them - sour milk and talc ewww. I hate the thought of pregnancy, breastfeeding, it all turns my stomach. I hate the idea of having to spend all day with someone who is so needy, and who you can't even have a converstaion with! I know, I know, it sound crazy! My mum has admitted (only recently - her views haven't influenced mine) that she couldn't stand me and my sister when we were babies - to her it felt like it was all take take take - she couldn't go to work, go out without a huge rigamarole.

BUT what I do want is the fulfillment of having a child. I want to have a relationship with them like the one that I have now (aged 25) with my own parents. I also don't want to deprive my parents of being grandparents.

I have always been a bit of a control freak, and I think that could be another reason for my indecision. As much as you can be a good parent, you can't really control how your child turns out. They could be intelligent, useful members of society; on the other hand, they could become addicted to drugs, they could murder someone. I don't know how I could live with myself if my child turned out like that.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, and now I'm just rambling so I will stop as I haven't contributed much to the discussion!

Hmm. My baby smells lovely, never used talc on her, and you CAN have a conversation with them! They can communicate, they just don;t use words.

I'm a control freak as well, but the great thing about being a parent is that, mostly, what you put in makes a difference to what comes out, so you CAN 'control' what sort of child you have by the parenting you give them. Not that that is why I had a child lol.

I think I like being a mum so much because my baby is a reflection of what I do with her - she is so smiley and happy and sociable and that's a direct result of how I'm bringing her up.

Now THAT's rewarding.

Silaqui

I know it's weird Skintchick - I just can't explain it, there's something about small babies I just can't take - hence the embarrassed face in the previous post. Maybe it's just because I don't really know how to handle them.

I do like the thought of having what you talk about in your last but one paragraph - but I don't know if I can trust the hormones to overule the other feelings!