Do I have right to take my daughter on holiday?

ses6jwg

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

The LO is her flesh and blood too, or had you forgotten that bit?

And before you say anything in that tone of voice to me, I don't smoke and I don't drink. But there's a pretty big leap in the imagination from someone smoking within 30 foot of a child to spiking their bottle with beer - get a grip on yourself.

By the sounds of your reaction to the first bit of difficult questioning from someone who is answering to help you, and the way you are talking about the woman you decided would be the mother of the child (wishing she were dead? You even sound like a stalker), I have a feeling that you're going to end up in court. Especially as there is a ready made property overseas for you and her.

Get a solicitor. And rather than talking that way about or to your ex, try some charm and respect, as even if she doesn't really deserve it, it's more likely to get you some contact successfully established.

I tried charm and respect, for the last 4 years and it has got me nowhere apart from being used as a doormat.

With respect, have you ever given somebody an engagement ring and had it given back to you left in a shed with no explanation?

We all react differently and my head is in such as a mess sometimes I don't know what to feel.

All I wanted was to do things as a family. All she wanted was to dump our child on me, her dad or sister, and go out and get p!ssed. For the last few months, anyway.

Rather than help me save for a house deposit (which I why I hardly ever go out nowadays).

staceysteve

I am a stepmum, have seen my fiance go through all this with his son and ex - who also loves to wield her so called power and dictate.
Best thing you can do is go to the CAB - know all your rights.
Go through CSA - as it has been mentioned before this way it is well documented what you pay, she cannot accuse you paying too little because you will pay exactly what you are supposed, if she's on benefits and some of this gets taken away that is not your concern.
See a solicitor, I know it's expensive but it is important to get regular access set up and if you are going to be in your place in 8 weeks it is best to start negoiations early.
With your solicitor ask about the holiday and request that your daughter is able to go in writing and get a written and signed response - preferably through her solicitor but from her is better than nothing.

Whatever you do don't give up, it's so hard I know especially as you don't have automatic equal rights (which I believe fathers should but that's a whole other debate) but fight for your daughter she will thank you one day.
My fiance has always said better to go through all this and take all the rubbish than have his son turn around one day when he is grown up and say 'Why didn't you fight for me? I wanted to see you more.'
They will remember.
I am totally in support of you!!! Keep going!!

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Well, let's put it this way, I'm a bit older than you both. I thought I should at least have some idea of who I'm speaking to, so I've just glanced at a couple of other posts you have made.

The first thing that leaps out at me is that you say you tried to force her to have an abortion. Perhaps she never really forgave you for that? Perhaps the experience of being 16/17 and stuck in a freezing refuge for a year whilst you got on with University was more traumatic for her than you appreciate?

The way you write in your other posts, the 'voice' you use verges upon being described as condescending and somewhat pompous at times. You may not mean for this to be the impression you give, but you sound like a young man trying to be middleaged.

'But I just want to do everything as a family' can be interpreted that she can kiss goodbye to doing anything independently or resembling fun for the next fifteen years or so.

I may not approve, you may not approve, but your late teens and early twenties are the time when you are supposed to be going out most weekends, drinking too much or experimenting with substances. You don't want to do that - fair enough - but a large number of people will disagree with you.

Your ex is probably feeling the loss of any freedom more keenly than you because she is the one with the little one all day - you get to go out to work, after all, which, when you have a demanding toddler, sounds like fifty hours of time off every week.

In your other posts, you appear to have been squirrelling away money left, right and centre, planning to play the stock exchange, etc, etc. Great if you are simply a young bloke living at his parents', but not so attractive to someone who has gone from a violent home life, to pregnancy, to a boyfriend making major demands of her and nearly 'losing the plot' for want of a better phrase, to twelve months in a refuge with a baby, to the everyday life of caring for a child. Sounds like you have adopted a paternal role in your relationship. At 16, 17, 18, most people's energy is taken up in breaking free from parental constraints, not being expected to submit to more.

So you bought nappies. Great. So you should, but did she get bought a car so she doesn't have to wait for buses, or a handbag that she really liked? You obviously had the money for the six months after starting work, judging by the amounts you have put away. Was she ever asked if she would like to go to college, get a better future for herself, rather than just relying on you as the big man?

And then you don't like the friends she does have, refer to people as 'repulsive', and spend time on a website frequented by grandparents chatting about baking your own bread and cleaning windows with vinegar and newspaper?

It's a difficult thing to say 'NO' to a bloke waving a ring in your face, especially if the bloke concerned has had difficulty dealing with stress before and your only knowledge of marriage has been to see domestic violence and anger.

I'm not saying she's in the right, but fact is, you got a 16 year old pregnant. To someone as ridiculously old as me, that's a girl, not a woman - both physically and mentally not ready for mortgages, marriage and the day to day humdrum of the rest of her life.

You may be quite content building your portfolio and staying in on New Year's Eve, but you're expecting a lot of her.

By all means be sensible, get a home and a good job, set up proper arrangements for contact with the little one, keep to them and don't allow yourself to be so critical of your ex.

If nothing else, it does make it sound that you could be planning to snatch the little one away - dehumanising your ex, talking about your flesh and blood (the flesh and blood you wanted removed at first, remember? She certainly does) and then all the stuff about how respectable you are compared to her and her friends, beer in the baby bottles, etc - if I were her mother, I would be advising her not to agree to you taking the little one without a court order forcing her to do so, as I would be very worried that you would just never return from the French property.

But be careful not to eliminate all threat of laughter, joy or foolishness, or you could very well look in the mirror one morning and think '£$%^! I'm 39. What have I done with my life?'. You then have a good chance of becoming mean and bitter, like the readers of the Daily Mail - who hate everyone else and resent anyone who thinks slightly differently to them.

Money is nice, but it can't fill an emotional void. It doesn't give you happy memories or a hug when you are feeling low.

I hope you sort something out, beneficial to everyone. I believe that the only way you can sort it out is to go through a solicitor as it's getting nasty, probably on both sides.

And I am very sorry that this post is so long, but, as a previous poster said, you were always going to get an idea of her point of view from this board. Why else would you post here? I don't think you were really posting expecting everyone to go 'poor you, that's not fair', after all. I think you actually wanted something other than that.

elektra-2007

The op was spot on, its really hard your head is mushed up, u want answers and its prob consuming you. But you really need to take a step back and calm down, try being nice when you talk to her, Keep the conversation to your daughter only that way she wont have an excuse to put down the phone. I know the smoke in her hair has really annoyed you but there isnt alot you can do, look at this way you dont want her to dictate what you do when she is staying with you so try not to with her. You say you cant have her over night as you dont have a bed. Just make her a temp one, a quilt folded on the floor or a camp bed about £6, It may seem like you want to say no out of spite, but if you really want to see your daughter take any opportunity she offers then she cant turn round at a later date and say i offered but he said no.
I would go on the csa website find out how much you should be paying and do it properly through the bank, it dosent matter what she spends the money on, You are showing your being responsable for your daughter.
I would leave mentioning the holliday for now see how things go, if she dosent let you take her this year it wont be the end of the world, it will hurt and you will be angry. But also a break away from the situation may help you see a bit more clearly.
I wouldnt go and find her either as she is obviously seeing it as stalking and you dont want to be in trouble.
How about writing a short letter, try keep your thoughts and feeling out of it make it brief but polite saying you want to keep contact with your daughter and maybe it would be beneficial to have regular contact so you can both arrange your lives around it, suggest days you would like to have her with times, and where you could pick up and drop off. Give her an option of replying other than phone as maybe she just isnt ready to talk to you yet. Maybe you can pick up your daughter at one of her families or friends, and resist the urge to get them involved by trying to give your side or find out things. You dont know what she has said to them, but they will prob be as loyal to her, as your family will be to you. You will get more repect being grown up and collecting your daughter as cheerfully as possible, let them see a mature side of you.
You may have to accept that you may never know why this has happened, maybe she got scared of comitment ect we could be guessing all day.
You said you are working and moving house soon so you have alot to keep you occupied as well as contact with your daughter to enjoy.
I really hope you get this sorted out amicably, for your sake as well as you daughters.
I have seen so many kids lives ruined because the injured party cant get over the injury, and the other parent is spitefull. It the kids that suffer.
Good Luck I really do wish you well.

snowmaid

Can I ask why would anyone want to take a 2 year old purposely on holiday with them?!?!? :cool:

They won't remember a thing, will be bored after the first hour, will nag, whine etc the whole of the holidays so much so that you may as well have stayed at home! You can't go out at night, you can't sit and eat a quiet meal, you can't go have a dip in the ocean etc.

My daughter's ex has taken their child to Disneyland Paris today for 3 days. Why?!?!? Him and his girlfriend can't go on any rides together as one is always watching the child (I hope!! :eek:), my grandchild is very lively so I can imagine he won't be cooperating by sitting quietly for a meal and tomorrow he will be all tired out and ready to go home. In the meantime they are stuck there with him until Thursday am!

Now if the child is 6/7, then the child will remember the trip and be old enough to cope with being on holiday.

People make such a big deal about partners not letting them take their babies on holiday with them. They are living with rose tinted glasses of playing happy family on holiday! It is a pain in the @ss, for which they will not thank you and certainly not remember in 2 days!

I never really went away on holiday with my children when they were younger. It really isn't worth the stress on them or me! :cool:

Bonnie2009

Well done, JoJo, that needed to be said.

ses6jwg

Jojo, thank for your post I have calmed down a bit now, mainly because I've just had a lovely evening giving my daughter "horse rides" around the living room!

I am grateful to for posting your opinions from "the other side" but there are a couple of points I would like to contest, if I may.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Well, let's put it this way, I'm a bit older than you both. I thought I should at least have some idea of who I'm speaking to, so I've just glanced at a couple of other posts you have made.

The first thing that leaps out at me is that you say you tried to force her to have an abortion. Perhaps she never really forgave you for that? Perhaps the experience of being 16/17 and stuck in a freezing refuge for a year whilst you got on with University was more traumatic for her than you appreciate?

In response to this, no I don't think she ever did really forgive me although I tried my best to make up for it. I have acknowledged that what I did was completely unacceptable.

She did not stay in the refuge long, I was going to drop out of University but my parents stepped in and asked her to move into my old bedroom at home with our daughter. They paid for all her food etc.

Now she will not even speak to my parents in the street and walks by them blanking them.

My Dad also paid for her Council house to be done up when she got allocated it as it was a complete tip. This cost him thousands and yet now she does not acknowledge him in the street

Whilst I was at University I was not allowed to go out without her permission first. I also came back every weekend without fail.

The way you write in your other posts, the 'voice' you use verges upon being described as condescending and somewhat pompous at times. You may not mean for this to be the impression you give, but you sound like a young man trying to be middleaged.

'But I just want to do everything as a family' can be interpreted that she can kiss goodbye to doing anything independently or resembling fun for the next fifteen years or so.

I may not approve, you may not approve, but your late teens and early twenties are the time when you are supposed to be going out most weekends, drinking too much or experimenting with substances. You don't want to do that - fair enough - but a large number of people will disagree with you.

I don't disagree with you, but ultimately it was her "choice" to have our daughter and all the extra responsibility that comes with that.

Drug taking and alcoholism, otherwise normally the preserve of teens, are something you forgo when you are responsible for another life.

Like I said, I have never ever ever stopped her going out with her friends. Before we split up she would usually go out once a week or every other week.

However I also wanted to spend time with her and by the end it felt as if she did not even want to see me let alone spend time with me.

Your ex is probably feeling the loss of any freedom more keenly than you because she is the one with the little one all day - you get to go out to work, after all, which, when you have a demanding toddler, sounds like fifty hours of time off every week.

In your other posts, you appear to have been squirrelling away money left, right and centre, planning to play the stock exchange, etc, etc. Great if you are simply a young bloke living at his parents', but not so attractive to someone who has gone from a violent home life, to pregnancy, to a boyfriend making major demands of her and nearly 'losing the plot' for want of a better phrase, to twelve months in a refuge with a baby, to the everyday life of caring for a child. Sounds like you have adopted a paternal role in your relationship. At 16, 17, 18, most people's energy is taken up in breaking free from parental constraints, not being expected to submit to more.

So you bought nappies. Great. So you should, but did she get bought a car so she doesn't have to wait for buses, or a handbag that she really liked? You obviously had the money for the six months after starting work, judging by the amounts you have put away. Was she ever asked if she would like to go to college, get a better future for herself, rather than just relying on you as the big man?

I offered to pay for driving lessons, she refused and said she "was too scared"

When I noticed that there was a college open day coming up, I suggested that we go and have a look as she expressed an interest in teaching. However as the date got closer and I suggested it again, she accused me of "pushing" her.

And then you don't like the friends she does have, refer to people as 'repulsive', and spend time on a website frequented by grandparents chatting about baking your own bread and cleaning windows with vinegar and newspaper?

It's a difficult thing to say 'NO' to a bloke waving a ring in your face, especially if the bloke concerned has had difficulty dealing with stress before and your only knowledge of marriage has been to see domestic violence and anger.

She was the one who suggested marriage to me, she said that she wanted me to show more commitment, so I did. She dragged me around looking at rings, not the other way around.

I'm not saying she's in the right, but fact is, you got a 16 year old pregnant. To someone as ridiculously old as me, that's a girl, not a woman - both physically and mentally not ready for mortgages, marriage and the day to day humdrum of the rest of her life.

I am only a year older so age is not an excuse here, I feel. If she was a girl I was a boy.

You may be quite content building your portfolio and staying in on New Year's Eve, but you're expecting a lot of her.

By all means be sensible, get a home and a good job, set up proper arrangements for contact with the little one, keep to them and don't allow yourself to be so critical of your ex.

If nothing else, it does make it sound that you could be planning to snatch the little one away - dehumanising your ex, talking about your flesh and blood (the flesh and blood you wanted removed at first, remember? She certainly does) and then all the stuff about how respectable you are compared to her and her friends, beer in the baby bottles, etc - if I were her mother, I would be advising her not to agree to you taking the little one without a court order forcing her to do so, as I would be very worried that you would just never return from the French property.

I'm not planning on "snatching" anybody away, what a ridiculous statement, to be frank.

But be careful not to eliminate all threat of laughter, joy or foolishness, or you could very well look in the mirror one morning and think '£$%^! I'm 39. What have I done with my life?'. You then have a good chance of becoming mean and bitter, like the readers of the Daily Mail - who hate everyone else and resent anyone who thinks slightly differently to them.

I am not like this at all, but unfortunately my idea of laughter happiness and joy doesn't simply revolve around a bottle of Vodka.

Money is nice, but it can't fill an emotional void. It doesn't give you happy memories or a hug when you are feeling low.

You are correct, as I have discovered.

If wanting and attempting to build a family unit based around love, commitment and hard work is a crime, then lock me up. Unfortunately it appears in this day and age such notions are outdated fuzzy nonsense.

I hope you sort something out, beneficial to everyone. I believe that the only way you can sort it out is to go through a solicitor as it's getting nasty, probably on both sides.

And I am very sorry that this post is so long, but, as a previous poster said, you were always going to get an idea of her point of view from this board. Why else would you post here? I don't think you were really posting expecting everyone to go 'poor you, that's not fair', after all. I think you actually wanted something other than that.

DVardysShadow

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

... It's a difficult thing to say 'NO' to a bloke waving a ring in your face, especially if the bloke concerned has had difficulty dealing with stress before and your only knowledge of marriage has been to see domestic violence and anger.

I'm not saying she's in the right, but fact is, you got a 16 year old pregnant. To someone as ridiculously old as me, that's a girl, not a woman - both physically and mentally not ready for mortgages, marriage and the day to day humdrum of the rest of her life.

ses, mate, jojo is right.

I can't see it was any easier for this girl to hand the ring back - it was actually harder I believe than it would have been for her to refuse it. When you handed her the ring, you handed her the key to a vision of the future. And it is not a future she wants for herself and she probably does not want it for you either. If there is any consolation in this, she put your ring and your belongings in a shed. It might seem insulting to you, but I imagine it was the only and best place she could find where you could get your stuff, without having you in. I don't imagine she wants to hurt you. I don't think she wants to meet you much either, she just wants to get on with bringing up the child and I think she is preparing to take the responsibility on behalf of you both. I think she can see that given up her freedom for the child she has given you your freedom, and she can gain a little freedom for herself. I bet she lacks the confidence to articulate any of this to you.

Please just forgive her and quietly support her financially and however she asks, but no further. She has chosen the role of single mother for the child first. Now this will be a blow to your pride and everything. But I think she has not made a big mistake in that choice, not for herself, nor for you. I hope you understand her choice in the fullness of time, because I don't think you are moving on until you do.

angelicmary85

ses6jwg wrote: »

However I raised a concern with her mother last week as when I picked my daughter up her hair smelled of cigarettes.

I'd freak!! There's nothing I hate more than kids reeking of fags!

You sound like a nice guy, I really hope everything works out for your daughter's sake.

Blackpool_Saver

Whatever either of them have done, she needs to communicate with him, she will either do it willingly or the court will enforce it.