accused of being a bully

libbyc3

I think you hit the nail on the head with the 'engage brain before the mouth opens'.
Although I am going to gracefully back out of this thread now and not read anymore, as I have felt personally attacked ( I know its not personal as you don't know me) and in trying to defend myself what I have written has been taken in ways that I did not mean to sound and this will just end in a vicious circle of me defending everything I say I am, which only reflect one facet of my personality and doesn't seem to be constructive.
Thanks for the replies, I have read all and taken them on board.

ilovedevon

Maybe if you were assertive enough in real life, you wouldn't have so much pent up venom and unleash it on here.
When groups of peopl get to gether they have a banter and jokes form a closeness between friends - being able to laugh together at ourselves. When I'm having a bad day, my freinds will come round and take the mick and we all laugh at the state of things and I feel better.
You have no idea that your comments are anywhere close to true. I doubt you have achieved anything in your post either in helping the OP become more slef aware of more assertive. It sounds more like you were bullied at school and now your taking it out on some random person on the internet.

[sighs]

Peace to you all.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Ok, well nobody else (except Errata & dmg) has challenged your view that you can't possibly have been at fault.

So I'm going to do it. I'm taking the point of view that could be the one the other lady has taken. You tell us that you don't really mind if someone disagrees with you, so, this isn't personal, but I am going to disagree with you and put forward another interpretation of the events.




Truth hurts sometimes

But singling out one colleague for attention doesn't sound particularly funny to me - and my sense of humour is positively charcoal

If you don't like what I have to say, no skin off my nose. But, I clearly remember from my studies, as do my children and many other people, that there is usually at least one person in a group situation who absolutely has to dominate the entire proceedings. They speak for the group, they manage the group, they think for the group, nobody else gets a chance to do anything, because the leader's opinions are the only ones that matter, and anyone who tries to disagree is not following the rules of the group. They are often bullish, passive aggressive or just plain confrontational and totally oblivious to how they make other people in the group feel. I'm not convinced I would like to be in a group with you. You would probably hate me, but I'd most likely, rather than take the route the other lady did (tempting though it probably was for a number of people), take myself off to a separate group and give quieter people a chance to speak without fear of being singled out for the acid tongue of 'humour'.

Bullies often use the excuse 'oh, we were just having a bit of fun really. Honest', the implicit being 'she just can't take a joke/isn't one of us/shouldn't be here/doesn't belong'.

Don't ask other people what they think - they could be saying anything just to get out of the tricky situation of telling you that actually, yes you are a absolute nightmare and they wish you were in a different class, as you would respond aggressively towards them too.

I suspect that, if you had posted on the Disability thread, the replies received would have been slightly different to the ones over here.

glossgal

ilovedevon wrote: »

Maybe if you were assertive enough in real life, you wouldn't have so much pent up venom and unleash it on here.
When groups of peopl get to gether they have a banter and jokes form a closeness between friends - being able to laugh together at ourselves. When I'm having a bad day, my freinds will come round and take the mick and we all laugh at the state of things and I feel better.
You have no idea that your comments are anywhere close to true. I doubt you have achieved anything in your post either in helping the OP become more slef aware of more assertive. It sounds more like you were bullied at school and now your taking it out on some random person on the internet.

[sighs]

Peace to you all.

I'm not sure there's anything constructive left to say on this thread but I wanted to point out that there is a big difference between friends taking the mick and collegues/classmates etc-the difference being that we choose our friends and not our collegues. If someone is a pain at work then the best you can do is tolerate it-it's completely different to having a laugh with people you choose to spend time with. This is the point of the posts that have challenged OP, nothing to do with any of us having 'issues' etc. In fact if we are in amateur-psychology mode, I strongly suspect those who have got the hump with the posts daring to suggest OP might have been wrong are probably quite 'bolshy' themselves in their own personal lives and we have touched a nerve ie they are starting to wonder just how popular they really are...

Emmzi

I investigate bullying in my employment, on occassion.

Whether something is bullying or not is not defined by the bully, but the bullied.

I tend to agree with Jojo that this is a very likely interpretation of events from the bullied.

It is all subjective of course.

But I have yet to see the OP suggest that they are wrong; I have seen a lot of self justification, however.

Defending the status quo never brings about positive change.

You can never change other people.

You can only change yourself, and how you act, and hope others will respond.

FWIW I hate having to tell people about my disability but sometimes I will, in as relaxed a way as they can, because they need to know.

If they then took the mick out of it because I couldn't do something.. I'd be fuming. I'd be complaining. And I wouldn't accept an apology. Because it's a vindictive exploitation of my position for a cheap laugh.

You can see it any way you like. I can't feel it any other way.

kunekune

Emmzi wrote:

Whether something is bullying or not is not defined by the bully, but the bullied.

"I tend to agree with Jojo that this is a very likely interpretation of events from the bullied.

It is all subjective of course.

But I have yet to see the OP suggest that they are wrong; I have seen a lot of self justification, however."

But herein lies the rub. If bullying is completely subjective, and the only person who decides whether they have been bullied, is the 'victim', it is not possible to assume in every case that the 'bullier' IS in the wrong. There are some people - and I'm not expressing an opinion on this particular situation - who will cry bully very easily indeed. Now, in terms of supporting them, it may well be appropriate to take this seriously - they are upset, feel bullied, etc. But it does not follow that it is appropriate to punish the person they are accusing. Subjective definitions of harm are perfectly acceptable in their context, but it is completely inappropropriate to use them as the sole determinant of whether someone is blameworthy.

And yes, that is jargon, but from a legal/criminal responsibility perspective, not social work.

In ordinary language:

Yes, tell someone, "you poor thing, that must have been awful, here, have a mug of tea, a choccie biscuit, and have a weep if you need it."
Her own view that she has been bullied is plenty enough for that.
But before you tell the other person involved, "you terrible person, you are a bully, I'm going to mark your file," switch your definition of bullying to something objective.

Both meanings of bullying have their place, but they are not interchangeable.

ilovedevon

glossgal wrote: »

I'm not sure there's anything constructive left to say on this thread but I wanted to point out that there is a big difference between friends taking the mick and collegues/classmates etc-the difference being that we choose our friends and not our collegues. If someone is a pain at work then the best you can do is tolerate it-it's completely different to having a laugh with people you choose to spend time with. This is the point of the posts that have challenged OP, nothing to do with any of us having 'issues' etc. In fact if we are in amateur-psychology mode, I strongly suspect those who have got the hump with the posts daring to suggest OP might have been wrong are probably quite 'bolshy' themselves in their own personal lives and we have touched a nerve ie they are starting to wonder just how popular they really are...

If you are asking as to whther i am a bolshy person the answer is definatly not! I am very quiet in groups and do not like attention so much. I just noticed how the post I quoted may make someone feel and wanted to try and help the situation.

Emmzi

kunekune wrote: »

But herein lies the rub. If bullying is completely subjective, and the only person who decides whether they have been bullied, is the 'victim', it is not possible to assume in every case that the 'bullier' IS in the wrong. There are some people - and I'm not expressing an opinion on this particular situation - who will cry bully very easily indeed. Now, in terms of supporting them, it may well be appropriate to take this seriously - they are upset, feel bullied, etc. But it does not follow that it is appropriate to punish the person they are accusing. Subjective definitions of harm are perfectly acceptable in their context, but it is completely inappropropriate to use them as the sole determinant of whether someone is blameworthy.

And yes, that is jargon, but from a legal/criminal responsibility perspective, not social work.

I agree. In a work context, which is not about going to ET stage etc, as at that point lawyers step in, I see it tending to be influenced by a few factors

- was the 'accused' pointing out how to do the job better/ acceptable standards, in a reasonable way? Often perceived as 'picking on', usually just 'bring your work up to scratch please' = acceptable, usually

- did the 'accused' highlight anything personal about the individual abd single them out because of this - race, age, disability, coming from the wrong school, having strange accent, etc. Usually rules as bullying as it concerns who you are, not what you do.

- one off !!!! up, or over a period of time?

- once the effect of the behaviour has been pointed out, is there any remorse or endeavour to change behaviour? (not just apologise but change their views and future actions.) The truly sorry will do this, the smart un-sorry will make a token effort, the bully/ bigot won't.

- off the record, as you can't bring them into a specific case, track record of crying wolf/ being a git/ extreme views on either side.

It's never this simple, and I don't know if this is of interest, but these are the kind of factors I look at.

Takoda

But if the woman's dozing at that time is not her normal behaviour - shouldn't that have been a bit of a clue to the OP that everything was not well?

When you are part of a group for a while you get used to people's idiosyncrasies.

I don't think this situation is bullying but maybe a more sensitive approach to fellow students is called for in future interactions.

HTH

Takoda
.........................................................

Social Worker 0 Teacher 1 (No, not you Libby3C)

OWNED

poet123

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Ok, well nobody else (except Errata & dmg) has challenged your view that you can't possibly have been at fault.

So I'm going to do it. I'm taking the point of view that could be the one the other lady has taken. You tell us that you don't really mind if someone disagrees with you, so, this isn't personal, but I am going to disagree with you and put forward another interpretation of the events.




Truth hurts sometimes

But singling out one colleague for attention doesn't sound particularly funny to me - and my sense of humour is positively charcoal

If you don't like what I have to say, no skin off my nose. But, I clearly remember from my studies, as do my children and many other people, that there is usually at least one person in a group situation who absolutely has to dominate the entire proceedings. They speak for the group, they manage the group, they think for the group, nobody else gets a chance to do anything, because the leader's opinions are the only ones that matter, and anyone who tries to disagree is not following the rules of the group. They are often bullish, passive aggressive or just plain confrontational and totally oblivious to how they make other people in the group feel. I'm not convinced I would like to be in a group with you. You would probably hate me, but I'd most likely, rather than take the route the other lady did (tempting though it probably was for a number of people), take myself off to a separate group and give quieter people a chance to speak without fear of being singled out for the acid tongue of 'humour'.

Bullies often use the excuse 'oh, we were just having a bit of fun really. Honest', the implicit being 'she just can't take a joke/isn't one of us/shouldn't be here/doesn't belong'.

Don't ask other people what they think - they could be saying anything just to get out of the tricky situation of telling you that actually, yes you are a absolute nightmare and they wish you were in a different class, as you would respond aggressively towards them too.

I suspect that, if you had posted on the Disability thread, the replies received would have been slightly different to the ones over here.

I actually don't think I have ever read a post which has been crafted to go for the jugular, or undermine an OP more than this one.

It has been written by someone with an agenda, with a history of issues with others, a sizeable chip on their shoulder, someone who perceives they have been on the recieving end of insensitivty, and by someone with the capacity to make mountains out of molehills. In short, quite a dangerous individual. Probably also someone who wants her own way in all things and has no empathy with others, yet expects bucket loads of it for her own situation. I have met this kind of person before.

The OP did not come on here stating she was wholly innocent, she seems reflective enough to understand that some people may object to her personality. But she did come on here, that in itself is telling behaviour, someone who engaged in the type of behaviours described by the writer of the post above would have thought no more about the incident, just have been of the opinion that the other student was overly touchy and probably gone on to have a laugh at her expense with her other colleagues.

I deal with students every day, there are issues, there are personality clashes, there are bullies (fewer than you would think) but most people simply make mistakes, misjudge the situation, read someone wrongly. There is no malice aforethought, no intent to dominate, no intent to be top dog. To infer that this is the case here, is to grossly overstate the case on the facts presented, and would appear to be done from the standpoint of someone who wishes to make a point just because she can. Not because the point is verifiable, or even likely.

To the OP, go and see your Tutor (that is what we are here for) she will arrange a meeting between the two of you and mediate to ensure the situation is dealt with appropriately and causes no long term atmosphere within the group. It can be used as a learning tool, to help both parties cope with this type of incident. If handled correctly a positive outcome for both sides can be achieved. I wish you well.

To the poster above, you are entitled to your opinion, but like the rest of us are bound by convention, and there are ways of presenting that opinion. Ways in which you do so that does not say more about you than it does about the OP, and not in a positive way. It was a very hurtful post, not to be confused with/or presented as "telling it as you see it".

We can see the difference.

libbyc3

I know i said i wouldn't read anymore but hey.
I believe in my first post that i had admitted straight away that I had misread the situation and how the lady was feeling and offered an apology, I have never claimed that my original actions that got me into this situation were right.
post 61 was also an attempt to explain the jokes that the lady had made about herself that morning, which is why i had mistakenly thought she would be ok with what i said.
I am not a social worker, at the moment just a foster carer and when i wrote, the 'tone of voice' in my head (if that makes sense) was really not pompous but just trying to show that there are times when being pushy does get thing done.
I can't remember what else i have been accused and I shouldn't really care but reading strangers opinions of your personality is a weird experience. one thing I have learnt from this is definatley not to make assumptions about anyone on this forum from the one paragraph they post.