Feeling Melancholy

lynzpower

you say theres "nothing out there" what do you mean?

theres no jobs?

tesuhoha

There arent any unskilled jobs for young people. A teacher at the school where I work, her daughter works at sainsburys and she says all the supermarkets are cutting back on staff, not taking them on. Her friend who is at uni with her cannot get a job and shes trying really hard. Last year my daughter couldnt get anything, although with a lot of persistence managed to get a job cooking the burgers at McDonalds. She is going back there this year. a lot of the kids where I work are trying to get jobs but arent having much success. I want him to find out for himself what its like. My neighbour's son desperately wanted to get into building and he wrote letters to places constantly for 2 years but could get nothing until my OH took him to work with him and helped him out and now hes got his own car, is renting a cottage with his girlfriend and is planning to emigrate to the USA. He is earning about £800 a week now as he's so good. MY OH would like this for my son too, or for him to do electrics or air conditioning but he's got to want to do it and there is no sign of him wanting anything. I know we could take everything away from him and I am not giving him money but I want him to be self disciplined.

lynzpower

Where abouts are you tes, whats your nearest town? Seems crazy that there are "no jobs", has he tried the jobcentre plus pages, theres millions on there

Kal

I know that down our way many employers wont hire unexperienced school leavers as they have no skills and are a risk as they wont stick with the job and many simply dont want to work anyway.

Even jobs that many consider unskilled (e.g flipping burgers) they still require previous experience

Mirtos

Hi. I'm so sorry it's so hard with your son. My partner was just the same - his parents always viewed him as bright and encouraged him, sending him to a good school etc... but he failed his a levels and had to resit. Then he went to uni, but hated it and dropped out to work. After several rubbish jobs, he got a good one (managing in the nhs) and learnt some serious life skills. Then, a few years later, he began to feel frustrated because he wasn't being challenged, so he gave up his job and went back to uni. Now he has a BA and masters degree from one of the best unis in the world, and started his new job on a salary well above the national average. He's 30 now. I went to private school and have breezed through life with all As, but now my partner and I are on fairly equal footing career and education wise - but He has acheived so so much more, because it wasn't easy for him he had to work harder to acheive what he has got. Don't give up on your son - for my partner, failing his a levels and dropping out of uni were the making of him, because when he went back, he knew the value of education - with any luck, your son will learn this too and make a success of himself because he wants to be proud of himself, not because you pushed him - and then you'll be amazingly proud of him. Just love him no matter what, and it'll work out.

Mirtos

tesuhoha wrote:

My son was chosen for a gifted kids week when he was 13 and well I would not call him that and I dont think his teachers would.

Often kids who are exceptionally intelligent get bored and fail because the lessons aren't sufficiently challenging. I know it seems far fetched, but I have personal experience of this - when I was about 12, I was failing most things, until the school tested my IQ and moved me up a year so the work was harder - it's the best thing that ever happened - I have an MA now and own my own company. - Try getting his IQ measured and some psychometric tests done - your local LEA will be able to advise.

sarymclary

Hi Tesuhoha,
I've read through this thread (took a fair while!), and I think there have been some really great suggestions already made.

I am a mother of 4 boys, 2 of which teenagers, so I can empathise with you. I'm also widowed, so I'm not as lucky as you to have a male role model for them, which is very important for boys (I think).

Anyway, my eldest son is into his gaming, and could easily develop piles and square eyes with all the time he spends sat playing them. I blame myself in many respects, because we supplied the blasted machines, although he did raise the cash himself from some ebay sales to provide another handheld console. However, I realised about a year ago that it was making him anti-social and aggressive, with everyone, not just his family. This seemed totally out of character, as he's always been so mild mannered, but this was the red flag I needed to make me realise that there was cause for change in his routine.

Whilst I considered putting a time constraint on how long I was going to allow him to play, I realised that sometimes these games can take a fair while to get through a 'mission' or a 'level'. However, he finds the controllers missing from his room if I find that he hasn't kept his room tidy, done homework/revision, or done the basics of getting himself up and ready, etc. He has to manage his own time around his gaming in order to get things done. If he doesn't get his stuff done, he loses the privelige of having the gaming. He's not being punished, he just didn't deserve it, and it is applied daily, which gives him the chance to redeem himself for the next day. When he has homework/tests/revision, this has to take priority over the console/PC, and is not allowed unless an agreed amount of work is done.

He is a really bright boy, but has consistently underperformed since joining Grammar school. His teachers have almost given up on him, and at one point I almost did too. The one thing he wanted most of all was a puppy, which I agreed could be his reward for an excellent end of year report. The mid-year report was enough for me to work out it clearly isn't going to happen, plus a few detentions for late homework, but he knows he lost the opportunity himself, it wasn't that I punished him by backing out on an agreement.

I run a performance chart too, which is symbolic of good and bad behaviour, or signifying an inability/refusal to stick to the AGREED rules. Obviously there's a competitive nature to the one in my house, as all 4 want to win each week. My reward is heaping lots of praise and attention on the winner, along with a £2 bonus to their pocket money. I wonder if you can perhaps award a credit to a 'Rock Concert' account for him, which would fund his ability to attend them. Effectively he'll be paying for them himself. He needs to earn his rewards, they aren't a rite of passage. I'm sure you don't just turn up at work and do nothing else in order to earn your salary.

I recognise, from what you have said, a tendency for your son to be a bit of a loner. Is he a bit shy, and unable to put himself out there? If so, then he's probably going to be loathe to join a club, or get involved in a group situation, but if you can encourage he do this, it really will boost his confidence. He can play guitar, loves rock music; what about getting him involved in getting a band together? My 2nd eldest plays guitar too, and is keen to start his own band, but finds our location (10 miles from town) difficult to get one together. Maybe the music department at school could help, or even his old school? As part of the agreement for the improved school report for my eldest, he had to agree to undertake at least one after school activity, which actually he increased to 2. It meant he got involved in a group activity, and has now made a really good friend through it (he was a bit of a loner, and clearly not popular in school) who he spends weekends away with.

I'm also wondering if he's choosing to carry on with his education because he's either got no idea what to do otherwise, or is scared to leave the cossetting of school-life, or quite simply is canny enough to know that once he leaves it the real hard work will begin (I fell into the latter category - I was immature, but wise enough to know when I was onto a good thing with my parents, even if I did hate living with them).

You don't mention what, if any, responsibilities there are for him in your home. My suggestion would be that he should be making the majority of his own meals, unless it suits you to have him eat with you. He should be cleaning his own room, and changing his own bedsheets. If you trust him to do the laundry, that too, if not, he has to leave his laundry in the agreed place (bin, by the washer) on an agreed day(s) to suit you. He has to make a contribution to the home now he's physically capable enough to do so, so as well as caring for his own living space, he can help out in other parts of the house, whether it be a bit of vacuuming, mowing the lawn, or washing the car. They're all jobs that need doing.

However, if you allow him to play games all night, he's going to need to sleep all day. You have to take control of the time of day he can do that. I would suggest you have the machine controlled by user's 'logging on', and I would also suggest that you take the control by having him ask you to log on for him; don't give him a username of his own, because he's bound to abuse it. The same applies to the internet access. I assume he has his own screenname, which he logs onto, but I also assume you have the master screenname? If so, cancel his screenname, or change the parental controls on it to something very limited, which will mean you will have to give him permission to log onto gaming sites. He has to understand it is a privelige to use your computer, or if it's his PC, then your telephone line. You can still have your own access to the internet, whilst not allowing him to. The reason his gaming is his life, is because that's all he's been filling it with. Take it away, and he'll have to find something else. It's tough love, but he does sound addicted, and the fact that he's knowingly sacrificing his education for it should be reason enough for it to have to be stopped, until you can work out a reasonable way to allow it. He'll have to earn that back. Get his music 'burned' onto CD's, and if he needs a track putting on his MP3 player, he'll have to ask you to do it. That's what I do with my boys, and if they've not behaved, they don't get the tracks.

I sound like a little Hitler, but they know the boundaries, accept losing a priviledge, and really appreciate their rewards and any little surprises that I choose to provide. They even thank me for a day out, because I got so fed up with them taking it for granted, or even ruining a day out by arguing, that I refused to take them anywhere for an entire summer holidays because they couldn't be trusted. It was hard work, but it did the trick.

At his age he should have a part-time job to help support himself. He is too old for pocket money from his parents. Stop handing out money hand over fist, and embrace the whole empasis of this website. He'll have to learn to earn and budget his own finances, and hopefully you won't be bailing him out of debt in his mid-20's. Which leads me neatly onto the Uni thing. If he has no aim for a career, then Uni would be a total waste of time and money. You clearly cannot afford to support him, and he cannot afford to support himself. His inability to thrive in an academic world right now shows you that he's not going to use the opportunity wisely.

That said, if he is still very determined to go, then I would suggest a year's break in his education. A year in which he has to prove his determination to have the opportunity to go to Uni, and a year in which he has to work towards saving an agreed target of money to put towards his education. He may draw comparisons between the help his sister has had, and that you're not being fair, but you're treating them as individuals, and if his sister had behaved in the same way, she'd have had to prove herself too.

I think you and your husband have been trying very hard to give him the best start in life, and you should be applauded for it. Unfortunately, your son's character hasn't responded in the same way as his sister, but all children are different. As he was so upset after the examinations, perhaps he needs to reflect on them, and come to realise that it was his responsibility to revise and prepare himself adequately, and noone else.

As a hint, as you don't seem to be able to get him to willingly chat to you, or he walks away; I use a trip in the car for their 'chats', or even a long lecture. I find a moving vehicle prohibits walking away! Actually, it has been really helpful, because of the confined space, and provided you don't start losing your temper, or allowing any discussion to go off at a tangent. You'll be surprised at how much of what you say does go in, even if they don't want to admit to it!

I wish you well, and hope you've found sharing your experience on this site beneficial. It's encouraging to know complete strangers can care so much.

lynzpower

Excellent post Sary :T

Lewby

Hi Tes, Just sending you a hug and to let you know that you are definately not the only one in this situation (although I know it feels like it sometimes).

Our son announced on Friday as he left school that he had not applied for college and was going to get a job! He is a lazy, nocturnal ..... all the other things you said in your original post and he has decided this because he has been so lazy with his school work that he won't get the grades he needs .... so has made the decision not to go to college now before he gets told he can't because of his grades. Angry! Just a bit!

You have had some great advice on here ... and some not so great. The most important thing in all of it is for you and your OH to keep your sanity, keep talking to each other and get on with your own lives DESPITE your son's attitude. That is all it is .... TEENAGE ATTITUDE!

You have found yourself another important thing in that programme you watched ... he is well and should be with you for a long time. Life is far too short to argue over getting up, helping with the housework etc etc. I get cross with my kids ... 19, 16, 15, 14 and 12 but when they are on the computer or in bed at least I know where they are.... not engaging in criminal activity or doing drugs.

As many have also said, he will grow beyond this. It takes patience but it is also ok to lose your temper and not make life easy for him. I don't hand out money (we haven't got it), I don't do the washing unless it is in the basket, I don't clean their rooms, I just shut the door and meals are on the table regular as clockwork and the kitchen closes (apart for toast) beyond that.

Stick to your own routines, enjoy your life, stop letting him see you upset by it and he will reach a point where he realises that life is much better and more fulfilling when you interact reasonably with those you care about.

This may not help but it has finally worked for me. I spent years stressing about behaviour, attitudes, school work, appearance (two boys have long hair and the 3rd one is now growing an afro which looks awful) and the only person who got upset was ME. Now I laugh with my OH, put the radio on and sing (loudly on Sunday's at about 11am!), get on with my housework (hoover and washing machine go on at about 10am) and let them get on with it. It intrigues them to know why I'm so happy!

Our rules are simple and few and they know that if they can't stick to them then they need to think about rent, food, utilty bills, clothing money, etc etc!

Take care of you!

Lewby xx

briona

Hi Tesuhoha

Firstly I'm not a mother so anything I say here is based on my mother's upbringing of me and my siblings rather than my experience of bringing up any of my own!

Right, at 16/17/18 [not sure how old your son is], people are old enough to understand that to every action there is a consequence, and in this case, the consequence of not studying is failing exams. That's as far as your input need go. Then it is up to HIM to sort out what he wants to do and how he goes about doing it. Failing exams isn't a be-all-and-end-all but as my mother curtly informed my siblings and I, once we were no longer in full time education she would lose benefits for us and would expect us to pay rent and contribute to the running of the house. Her belief: you don't get to live for free anywhere else, why should home be any different?

The result: my sister closest in age to me and I both stayed on at school and went to university, got qualified and got good enough jobs in the fields in which we qualified earning round about the national average salary... My older brother messed about in school and was finally expelled aged 16. He is however exceptionally talented with computers and has had a job since he was 17/18 – he currently earns around 80K pa and has just interviewed for a 120K pa job... My younger brother and sister both left school at 17 and moved to London. The brother worked initially in a range of low paid jobs but then took on an apprenticeship in engineering – these days he commands a salary of £750 – £1000pw [which admittedly includes a fair amount of overtime] and he is spending all his money getting diving and boating qualifications. My sister worked her way up in a well know London department store and, aged just 21, is a now a manager there.

The moral? Education is NOT everything! I believe that the key with your current situation is to lay out the options to your son and make it very clear that you will NOT pay for any re-sits etc. If he fails then HE needs to work out what he's going to do with his life, but you can be damn sure it won't include handouts and rewards for sitting in his bedroom playing computer games. If a conventional education isn't his thing, then maybe look for some paid apprenticeships – but you should only help bby pointing him in the right direction and not by actually finding the information/courses yourself...

Best of luck.

Briona

DISCLAIMER: If this advice annoys/upsets anyone, please feel free to disagree with me – it's only meant as an insight into my experience, not a guide to how it must be done!