Mac Snow Leopard

Marty_J

Leopard wrote: »

I need, you may be assured, no tutoring in contract law! :rotfl:

I think you perhaps need tutoring in something.

With regards to this:

A. Single Use License.[/U] Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, unless you have purchased a Family Pack or Upgrade license for the Apple Software, you are granted a limited non-exclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-branded computer at a time. You agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-branded computer, or to enable others to do so. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a time, and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time.

There is no single user full retail version of Snow Leopard. What Apple are saying is that unless you have purchased a family pack, or the upgrade disk (which can be used to upgrade more than one qualifying Mac), you are only allowed to install Snow Leopard on one Mac per licence.

Nothing that I have bought indicates nor suggests that I have purchased a "Family Pack Upgrade for Mac OS X Leopard license". I bought, instead, what is, and what purports in every visible way to be, a standalone "Family Pack" install-from-fresh package.

Apple cannot have this both ways. What I bought, and what you bought at Best Buy (unless it was packaged differently), and what will be on sale in every high street store such as PC World (eventually) is packaged as, displayed as, and demonstrably purports to be, a standalone Snow Leopard Installer - not a Leopard Upgade Installer. If Apple is selling (what it allegedly considers to be) a mere upgrader in the guise of a standalone installer, it's on the hook for misrepresentation. Consider the position of somebody who's been on holiday for a month, has read nothing about it, goes into PC World, reads the packaging and buys it.

So what are you proposing? That Apple should block the ability to install Snow Leopard on a fresh HDD? Should they use licence keys and software activation?

And, yes, the licence does matter but so does the packaging, the contents of the box, how it describes itself, what it actually does and the description of it when and where it is offered for sale - indeed, more so.

On Apple's website, it states that "Snow Leopard is an upgrade for Leopard users and requires a Mac with an Intel processor", and then a link is given for Tiger users to upgrade by buying the Mac box set.

To state, as you do, "It doesn't matter what the physical disk is; that's not what you buy when you purchase a piece of software" is palpable and self-evident nonsense. You do buy the disc and it most certainly matters what it is and what is on it. Suppose you bought the package and found it contained a damaged DVD - or a DVD of Mac OS 10.3.

Hardly nonsense if you read what I was quoting.

You said: "the "it's only an upgrader disk for users of Mac OS 8.5" is a marketing myth. It's a pure, standalone, OS 10.6 installer."

My point was, it doesn't matter what the disk actually is. That Apple have chosen not to police the requirement to have a valid licence for Leopard doesn't magically mean that requirement is null and void, nor does it mean they're being dishonest.

I'm really struggling to see what you're so annoyed about.

But if somebody pays Apple for it and then decides to install it on a non-Apple computer instead, the terms of the EULA are breached, but not to the detriment or financial disadvantage of Apple - so the breach is not, in practice, material.

Apple are a hardware company. Someone skirting the requirement to buy an Apple computer in order to run the OS they designed specifically for said computers is doing something that is to the financial detriment of Apple.

Consider, if you will, the situation of somebody who buys, at full price from Apple, a 5-user version of its software. If they install it on three of their Macs they have two licences spare. If they then install it on a fourth computer that they own but which is not a Mac - instead of on another one they own that is a Mac - in what way has Apple been disadvantaged? None. And since Apple has sustained no financial nor material loss from it, the breach is, in effect, a technicality, not a theft.

See above.

This is in contrast to the situation of somebody who Jailbreaks an iPhone. Because, when they do that, both Apple and O2 (in Britain) lose the revenue to which they are entitled contractually from the continuing monthly fee for airtime.

Apple lose the revenue which thy can expect from someone buying an Apple computer to run OS X on.

So, from Apple's point of view, that is a far more serious transgression.

They seem pretty annoyed about Psystar.

My own netbook, incidentally, I have re-branded with one of these.

Well that makes it all better then.

cmatt360

should have been a bit more proactive in getting a copy

Have spent the afternoon trying to get a copy... and most shops seem to think that no copies will be in stock till Tuesday

Middlers

Can anyone tell me how easy this installation is? Does it come on a disc? Will it interfere with anything already on the Macbook such as MS Office for Mac or any films/photos already on it? As you may have noticed I am not very computer literate with Apple having only just transferred from Windows. I suspect I am expecting everything to go wrong like it would with windows. I need reassurance before I take the plunge.

Leopard

Marty J,

You disappoint me.

I like you, your postings and your ever-kindly disposition far too much to be brutal to you in public but the fact of the matter is that you spend so much time arguing endlessly with illiterate fools on here that your high intelligence has become lazy, your reasoning has become undisciplined and your logic has become wooly: you have surrendered to the temptation of debating with your emotions instead of with the focussed concentration of which you are perfectly capable if you apply your excellent mind to it. That's what happens if you waste your time on morons; you win too easily and your intellect gets sloppy from lack of application and challenge.

I'm not in the least bit "annoyed", as you put it. My companion and I may have quite a collection of Macs but between us we have far more multi-user licences for all our software than we have computers to put them on. We are both existing, licensed users of Mac OS 10.5 on Intel Macs and the question of whether or not we are wrongly applying the multi-user Snow Leopard installer that I purchased yesterday does not apply to us.

Out of disinterested interest, I presented you with an eminently well argued legal dissertation for you to consider but instead of applying yourself to its logic, you dismiss it with peevish annoyance and ripostes that don't withstand a moment's sensible thought.

If you actually read, carefully and word by word, what I wrote and the very EULA that you call to support your argument, you will come to realise that this EULA is a disastrously badly drafted document that fails totally to plug the holes in what it seeks to achieve.

A contract is what is actually written in it, not what you (or Apple) wish it meant.

To stop beating about the bush and get to the real bottom line, Apple's Legal Division has made a complete ¢o¢k-up of the whole Snow Leopard licensing scheme and is now nervously and painfully well aware of it.

This whole thing is going to unravel - watch it happen - and Apple is trapped whichever way it tries to manoeuvre out of it.

I'd bet a dollar to a cent that Jobs is furious about it and that some seriously senior heads are going to roll within Apple's Legal Division over this. It's not, after all, the first time Apple has made a pigs ear out of a EULA - as you well know.

Anyway, you're one of the last people on here with whom I would wish to lose amity, so let's not pursue this matter any further.

:beer:

Middlers wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how easy this installation is? Does it come on a disc? Will it interfere with anything already on the Macbook such as MS Office for Mac or any films/photos already on it? As you may have noticed I am not very computer literate with Apple having only just transferred from Windows. I suspect I am expecting everything to go wrong like it would with windows. I need reassurance before I take the plunge.

Middlers,

The simple Snow Leopard disc that Apple is selling installs easily, by itself, on a reformatted drive (that is what is known as a "Clean Install"). Whether or not your existing software will work with it depends upon what version it is (about which you have been unspecific).

Golden rule: whatever you do, always back everything up safely before you start.

It's best to partition the hard drive on your Mac, putting the system, applications, utilities and libraries into one volume and your data (including films and photos) and documents into another volume. That way you can completely overhaul your system - even erase and replace it - while your data remains safe and untouched in another volume. Equally, you can back-up your data without having to separate it from your system.

If you put everything into a single partition, it all gets jumbled together and any repairs or maintenance you have to carry out on your system could damage your data.

I installed Snow Leopard myself, yesterday. It was simple, straightforward and everything appears still to be working, including my laser printer (about which I had harboured worries). The degree to which you will notice an increase in speed depends upon the age and internal architecture of your MacBook.

I hope that gives you the reassurance that you seek but if you have any worries it would be best to wait a week or two until everybody has become more familiar with it and can advise you with more reassurance themselves!

Marty_J

Leopard wrote: »

Anyway, you're one of the last people on here with whom I would wish to lose amity, so let's not pursue this matter any further.

Fair enough; sometimes I think I just disagree for the sake of being contrary. My poor wife knows all about it!

I guess, as you say, we'll see what happens. :beer:

At least we're both agreed Snow Leopard is a very nice upgrade (love the new signature by the way).

macman

Middlers wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how easy this installation is? Does it come on a disc? Will it interfere with anything already on the Macbook such as MS Office for Mac or any films/photos already on it? As you may have noticed I am not very computer literate with Apple having only just transferred from Windows. I suspect I am expecting everything to go wrong like it would with windows. I need reassurance before I take the plunge.

Which Macbook are you using and which version of OSX are you running at present? Snow Leopard will only run on an Intel Mac, if you are running an older G5 Mac then it cannot be installed.
If you post your serial number better advice can be given.

macman

Which Macbook are you using and which version of OSX are you running at present? Snow Leopard will only run on an Intel Mac, if you are running an older G5 Mac then it cannot be installed.
If you post your serial number (about This Mac>click on Version No) better advice can be given.

duncansby

Middlers wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how easy this installation is? Does it come on a disc? Will it interfere with anything already on the Macbook such as MS Office for Mac or any films/photos already on it? As you may have noticed I am not very computer literate with Apple having only just transferred from Windows. I suspect I am expecting everything to go wrong like it would with windows. I need reassurance before I take the plunge.

Hi - I too have just transferred from a PC and was apprehensive about the upgrade. The upgrade is a disc which you simply click on to install. It took about 50 minutes from start to finish on my iMac, and all my photos, music, bookmarks, different users etc are exactly as they were pre update. I was not sure whether to switch my external hard drive on or off on which I run time machine , so I switched it off and hoped that if things went belly up my data would still be there. Perhaps a more seasoned mac user could advise on that. Anyway, the short answer is that it was very straightforward.

Leopard

Upon the "better safe than sorry" principle, I always switch off Time Machine when I carry out an update or (especially) an upgrade of anything. Once I feel everything's working properly, I switch it back on.

In the case of Snow Leopard, I am being even more cautious. It's a fundamental change from 32-bit to 64-bit. To me, this upgrade is like changing the engine in one's existing car from a 4-cylinder to a 6-cylinder.

I'm still just experimenting with Snow on an external hard drive but all has gone well and I now feel confident enough to install it natively on to our Macs (mine has the 5-User licence).

When I do this, I shall archive my 10.5.8 Time Machine file and start building a new Time Machine file under OS 10.6.

I'm wary that if I tried, while running 10.6, to do a restore from a Time Machine built on 10.5, there might be a horrible and terminal noise from the gearbox.

Perhaps that fear is unfounded but, as I say, better safe than sorry...



I'd add that I contain both my own and my companion's Time Machine files within (separate) disc partitions of about 230 GB (each). This enables both of them to be backed-up on to a 500 GB drive.

If you set Time Machine loose on a terabyte drive it will simply and relentlessly construct an ever-larger file that eventually becomes unwieldy and too large to back up!

If, however you cage it in a smaller partition, when Time Machine fills that up it will automatically start deleting your oldest Tine Machine file (it warns you before doing so and seeks your consent!) to make room for your latest Time Machine file. This keeps its size under control while still providing a Time Machine facility that goes back for several months.

What that size (and partition-size) should be depends upon how you work and how far you might reasonably need to go back. That's something that only you can decide for yourself.



I perform "dot" (i.e. same fundamental version) updates directly on to my existing system - having first performed a Time Machine backup of it and then switched Time Machine off - but, personally, for a fundamental system upgrade, I always do a completely clean install and then let that import my applications and data from another drive when it invites me to do so.

With the Snow Leopard install, I'm taking the opportunity to replace the hard drives in our main Macs at the same time. I always do this every couple of years anyway, as a precaution against disc failure. I either put the removed drives into (Firewire + USB2) enclosures or into an older Mac and put that one's drive into an enclosure. This method of semi-retirement while still fit means I always have plenty of external drives upon which to store backups (or confidential data that I don't want to carry around in a laptop).

I'm not, of course, saying that everybody else should do the same thing(s) but I'd class myself as being in the category of a "seasoned Mac user" of the type from whom you requested advice!



Feel free to ask if you have any more worries or questions and I'm sure one of us long-time Mac users will be happy to help you.

Your courageous decision to switch platforms from PC to Mac was a wise one - as I am sure you have come to realise!

almillar

Just because someone asked whether the install would mess with MS Office - yes it will, if it's Office 2004 or older. As Leopard mentions above, it's worthwhile to click customise when it appears during install and remove any of the language translations you don't need (all of them for me). You'll also want to include Rosetta (3.5mb or something) which will let you run G4 code, like Office 2004 and Palm Desktop (in my experience so far, there are plenty more). At that small size, I wouldn't bother taking the gamble, just go ahead and install it.
If you've already installed SL and found that you have something that needs Rosetta (and you get a nice friendly message telling you that), you can simply put the SL disk back in and run 'Optional Installs' from it to get Rosetta on.
And for any Cyberduck users - run and update it BEFORE you install SL. If it's not the latest one, it won't run in SL, and then can't update itself. No biggie, you can downoad it fresh afterwards, but this'll just save a bit of hassle.
A fresh install of SL is far faster than upgrading, but more hassle of course as you have to reinstate you Apps and Docs. Running very well so far...