scottish power

Indignant

Hi Everyone,

Like many others, I got a letter saying that if I did not send back the opt out mandate I would automatically be put on the capped price deal...This made me livid :mad: .

The question I need answered from any solicitor types out there is:

Is an agreement in which acceptance is not positvely expressed by a party (ie acceptance is deemed to have been given)A LEGALLY ENFORCEABLE CONTRACT ?

I did a little Consumer Law at Uni many years ago, and from what I remember, it is not enforceable....But I really do need confirmation of this by someone with a legal background.

So if I am right, then any exit penalties that arise from a contract (capped price deal) that was not expressly agreed to by both parties (not 'opting out' before a set time cannot be deemed to be consenting to an agreement) are NOT LEGALLY ENFORCEABLE.

So In Theory......Anyone who tries to switch after the 30 Sept deadline to opt out .....cannot be charged an exit penalty....and if they are they can bring legal proceedings in the Small Claims Court to get their money back!!

I can just imagine the publicity if a few of those cases got to court!!

The likelihood will probably be that the exit penalty will be waived before anything as drastic as court action takes place.

I say again..... that is what I think........I am not a legal expert!!!


Anyway, I got my phone call from a nice lady at SP, confirming that my opt out had been received and she asked my reasons....And yes being the sophisticated person I gave them to her!!

1) EDF was cheaper - She tried to tell me that SP had a similar online offerring, I said EDF was cheaper, she said we're giving 3% off our bills and EDF only giving 2%, my reply was ...but their prices are lower to start with (OUCH!!).

2) Loyalty does not pay, but switching through a cashback site does

and yes I had to drop the bombshell

3) I think the opt out or be bound by a new contract was illegal -That was the only answer I got some reaction to....'We're a large company, and we would have run this by our legal department!!' . I did not say it but I have worked in companies where the marketing dept come up with 'great ideas' and they don't go through the legal dept for checking !!!


I think by then she realised that the true reason for a switch was the contract by Stealth (3), and there was no way she would get this customer back.

But I'm really not all bad ...I did say that if the switch did not go through or went badly, I would come back to SP because I have nothing but good things to say about their customer service

Hazzanet

Indignant wrote: »

Is an agreement in which acceptance is not positvely expressed by a party (ie acceptance is deemed to have been given)A LEGALLY ENFORCEABLE CONTRACT ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felthouse_v._Bindley

"silence cannot amount to acceptance"

Is that the one you're looking for?

Indignant

Yes...Yes ....Yes !!!

Felthouse v Bindley -

If I had remembered it, I would have told the rep to 'Run that past the legal dept' with regards to the capped price deal just to see what they had to say about it !!!

If I had the guts ......I would have waited until the 1st October and then switched ...just to see whether they would charge an exit penalty.....and if they did, serve a court summons to claim it back!!!

But alas...I am a mouse amongst men (eek eek!!:D)....so I just opted out within the time limit and am now in the process of switching to EDF. Didn't want to burn any bridges just in case the switch goes sour....and of course there is no guarantee that the EDF offer will wait until October whilst I 'prove my point' against SP !

lolly5648

I have just checked and I am on fixed price energy online. How can I find out when this fixed price ends - I have not received any emails and I can't find out when it started.

SwanJon

Hazzanet wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felthouse_v._Bindley

"silence cannot amount to acceptance"

Is that the one you're looking for?

[Devil's Advocate]

The link above also leads you to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brogden_v._Metropolitan_Railway_Company
where it was established that "contract can be accepted by the conduct of the parties"

So, if you do not intend to take them up on their new capped offer, would you have to stop using energy from the end of your current contract?

[/Devil's Advocate]

Hazzanet

SwanJon wrote: »

[Devil's Advocate]

The link above also leads you to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brogden_v._Metropolitan_Railway_Company
where it was established that "contract can be accepted by the conduct of the parties"

So, if you do not intend to take them up on their new capped offer, would you have to stop using energy from the end of your current contract?

[/Devil's Advocate]

I don't particularly want to get into a legal debate on this subject; Indignant wanted someone to point the way to the case that highlighted the point which he was making, which is what I did.

That said, I'm a firm disbeliever that it should be assumed that a contract has been entered into, particularly when there are exit penalties, by doing nothing. I'm not privy to the e-mails/letters that are being discussed, but my thoughts are that:

a) "to take up this offer, just don't anything"

is quite different to

b) "to take up this offer, just continue using your electricity supply with SP"

In (a) I would say Felthouse v Bindley is relevant, in (b) I would say that Carlill v Carbolic Smoke Ball Company is relevant in that "communication of acceptance is not necessary for a contract when people's conduct manifests an intention to contract."

I'm not a legal eagle; I did one module of contract law some 15 years ago as part of an insurance course so I may be talking out of my proverbial. Needless to say, I frown upon this type of wording.

joe134

Indignant wrote: »

Yes...Yes ....Yes !!!

Felthouse v Bindley -

If I had remembered it, I would have told the rep to 'Run that past the legal dept' with regards to the capped price deal just to see what they had to say about it !!!

If I had the guts ......I would have waited until the 1st October and then switched ...just to see whether they would charge an exit penalty.....and if they did, serve a court summons to claim it back!!!

But alas...I am a mouse amongst men (eek eek!!:D)....so I just opted out within the time limit and am now in the process of switching to EDF. Didn't want to burn any bridges just in case the switch goes sour....and of course there is no guarantee that the EDF offer will wait until October whilst I 'prove my point' against SP !

Somethings ,afoot at SP,as I wrongly posted yesterday, Their rep s are already chasing us that opted out of the next fixed online tariff, and went on their standard tariff.However, they are being devious, by claiming that some customers are being overcharged, demanding to see a recent bill, then trying to tie you up again, thats not hard to do if you are on their standard,is it? Methinks a pricefall is in the offing and they are trawling to catch us before they bring in a new online tariff, they are behind the rest of their competitors.Watch this space.

page3

StevieJ wrote: »

Discounted energy online fuel NSC (the option on the website) is guaranteed to be 3% lower than standard tariff, Whereas Online energy saver6 NSC is a minimum of 3% and currently it is more than 3%, so obviously this is the one to go for out of those two options.

As many others, I was put on the fixed tariff even though I opted out. I PM'd the rep here and asked to be moved to 'online saver 6' and my account now says I'm on 'on-line saver'.

Question is, is that Discounted energy online fuel or Online energy saver6 NSC . ???

Why cannot deal names match those shown on the account page?

joe134

page3 wrote: »

As many others, I was put on the fixed tariff even though I opted out. I PM'd the rep here and asked to be moved to 'online saver 6' and my account now says I'm on 'on-line saver'.

Question is, is that Discounted energy online fuel or Online energy saver6 NSC . ???

Why cannot deal names match those shown on the account page?

Hi, My a/c says I am on standard tariff which I do not want, however click over to the next page and you should see the tariff you are on , on your new ammended bill, with the new readings .On the back I am on Freshstart as required.Try it

money_saver2000

gjs1701 wrote: »

Had a phone call from a Scottish Power rep earlier this evening. He asked why I was switching, so I told him my capped rate was ending and I found a cheaper price.

He asked me who I was going to and how much I was paying, so I told him EDF. He asked how had found them, I told him comparison sites, which he rubbished, saying they were inaccurate.

Now EDF has calculated my direct debit at approx £19, which seems stupidly low, especially when compared to SP's rate which varied between £57 and £78.

So he pointed out that this was low and that I would be in debt to EDF. I told him I would rather be earning interest off the money than some big power company having it.

He offered me two different packages, one capped and one flex and fix (I think) but he said the direct debit would be around £65.

I told him I'd stay with EDF for now, since I'd done the work in swapping. He said, what work, we do all the work.

In the end I told him I'd stick with EDf and if they turned out to be no good, I'd switch back.

In a nut shell, he rubbished comparison sites, EDF, and me switching. Makes me wish I'd told him I wasn't happy at being switched to another capped rate unless I opted out.

Last month I decided to switch from SP to EDF.

I also had a call from a SP rep on Friday, quoting that they could beat EDF prices by 13% until July 2010.

I am awaiting another call on Monday to discuss this as I was busy.

Has anyone took this offer up, or are people staying with the online v5 from EDF?

Regards,
money_saver2000