Help regarding my right to replace a PS3

Thanatos

ok, so the PS3 came back, but no report. Spoke to "Dan" at the console repair place who said they dont do that normally. I explained situation and he asked me to email him the details. following email sent:

Dan,

As discussed on the phone, the three questions I needed answering were:

1. In your professional opinion, was the fault with the machine due to accidental damage?
2. In your professional opinion, was the fault due to normal wear and tear (bearing in mind its age of 2 years 4 months)?
3. In your professional opinion, was the fault inherent in the machine at time of purchase (e.g. Was it the failure of a component that would have normally been expected to last longer than 2 years 4 months)?

Obviously, I appreciate these questions can only be answered by a technician, and as I mentioned in the letter I enclosed with the console, if this service requires an additional charge I am happy to make a further payment for this service.

The reason I need this information is due to a dispute with HMV over who should be paying for these repairs. Both myself and HMV have agreed to abide by the advice given by your company, which is why I phoned to confirm your company would be able to provide such a report before sending the unit in.

I would really appreciate any help you could offer me in this regard.

Many thanks

Thanatos

On a side note - the machine worked fine. I got the game out, then updated to firmware version 3.01 and machine is now stuck in a permenent update loop and is essentially bricked once more.

20 minutes I had it working. So here we go again.... Awaiting call back from Sony. But on googling "3.01 p3 faliure" the news does not look good. *sobs* So now, I may have had to pay out £74 and still have a broken PS3...

hewbob

at the begining of this month my ps3 got the YLOD, i was told by sony that it was £128 for an exchange, until i found this thread i thought i was screwed.

but now ive sent an e-mail to amazon

Hello, my ps3 console purchased in february 08 has recently broken, it has what has become known as the yellow light of death (YLOD) failure, which if you search google returns in excess of 150,000 hits, so it appears to be a well known and consistant fault. The fault itself has even appeared on watchdog on bbc1.

As the product is outside of its 12 month warranty sony wish to charge me £128 to give me a 'refurbished' model in exchange for mine, and then only offer me a 3 month warranty on an item that has already broken once, i find this wholly unacceptable.

It is my understanding that under Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as I am sure you are aware) that any goods sold must be expected to last a period most people would consider a reasonable amount of time.

I do not consider 19 months to be a reasonable amount of time for a high end product costing £300, and i am sure you would agree with me on that point. The item was used in a correct manner placed in a well ventilated area and was free from clutter and cleaned of dust once a week.

As you were the original retailer of the product, i expect you to honour my rights as a consumer and provide me with a solution to this problem.

As you are a large global retailer specialising in electrical items i expect a speedy and addiquate response.

Thankyou very much:):):) hoping for a quick and purposeful reply

WebMaster_2

New to the forum, but have been following this thread for a while, having the same problems myself. My 60gb PS3 (only 23 Months old) just failed about 3 weeks ago, phoned sony, they want £128 for a repair etc. I am not really willing to pay for this, surely anyone who has paid over £300 for something would expect it to last more than 2 years. After all this is not a cheap DVD player from a supermarket, this is something made by one of the biggest electronics company in the world, who have built their reputation on durability and the best quality.
I have followed a number of other people in this thread and contacted the retailer from where I bought the PS3. Their first responce was,

"All electronic items purchased come with a one year warranty from the manufacturer, unless otherwise stated.

You have, until recently, used the product for a period of time which exceeds the manufacturer's warranty period without reporting any fault with it. Based on the length of use and the nature of the product, we have concluded that the issue with the product does not arise from a defect in the product which existed at the time of purchase, and consequently we cannot assist you further".

This was useless, and probably a standard reply.

So I decided to send a rather tough and hard hitting letter to the Managing Director of the company, basically quoting the Sale of goods act, and that it is shocking that Sony want extra money from me to repair a fault that should not happen in the first place, and that this product should last more than 23 months. I asked that they replace the PS3 or refund me the purchased price.

A E-Mail followed about one week later.

"First of all, I would like to apologise for the difficulties with your console. Under the Sale of Goods Act, a consumer is granted recourse against a seller of goods if those goods were defective at the time of purchase. This may include, in certain circumstances, repair, refund or replacement but only to the extent that doing so is not disproportionate to the value of the goods, having regard to the use the customer has already had of the goods and the nature of the goods.

Your item was dispatched to you on the 14th Oct 2007 and, until recently, you have used it successfully and reported no fault with the product. As you used the product satisfactorily for a period of time which exceeded the manufacturer's warranty period, it is not established that the product did not conform to the contract (i.e. was defective) at the time of purchase.

Given our obligations to you under the Sale of Goods Act and,taking into consideration that you have used this product, without experiencing problems (to our knowledge), for a substantial period of time we will not be offering you a repair, full refund or replacement.

However, although we do not have an obligation to do so under the Sale of Goods Act or otherwise, as a gesture of goodwill we can offer you £50 towards the cost of repairs or alternatively an Gift Certificate of a value of £70 towards your next purchase. Please confirm if you wish to accept either of these offers as a full and final settlement in this matter and I will make the appropriate arrangements.

I hope this e-mail satisfactorily addresses your concerns. If you have any further questions regarding this matter please do not hesitate to contact us".

A better responce, but only after my strong letter. Although £50 is better than nothing it still leaves me £80 short, and puts me in the hands of Sony if any other problems occour after the pathetic 3 month warranty runs out on a refurbished model.

WebMaster_2

I forgot to mention I also sent a letter to my Credit Card company, under section 75 they are equally liable.
I recieved a letter from them yesterday, they gave me this reply,


"Thank you for bringing to our attention your complaint. Your letter has been passed to my team as your query falls under our area of responsibility.
We are aware from a recent media programme that there have been problems with the Sony Playstation 3 and it is our further understanding that the manufacturers, Sony are looking to resolve customers' complaints. We would suggest that you contact them to see if they are willing to assist you.

If the matter should remain unresolved and sony are not willing to assist you or they wish to make a charge for their sevices then please forward a copy of your e-mails with the retailer, and a copy of your correspondence with sony, and we will be happy to review the matter further."


So it looks like I will be contacting Sony again to see if they are willing to help, I will mention that my credit card company is now taking an interest and if sony dont help they will be informed and they will take the matter further.

hewbob

quick reply from amazon well im smiling that they replied at least

Dear Mr Cooper,
(thats me)

My name is (i deleted his name out of kindness) and I represent the Executive Customer Relations Group within Amazon.co.(uk) and in this capacity, your correspondence has been brought to my attention.
(seems like a nice polite guy)

I am sorry to hear of the difficulty experienced with the Sony Playstation 3 Console (40GB Version) received in February 2008 from your order number blah blah blah
(i am also sorry, really very very sorry, infact i cried a little im not ashamed to admit it)

The European Directive 1999/44/EC allows for a claim to be taken (under certain circumstances) for a period up to two years in accordance with European Law, and up to six years under UK law.
(well at least he knows what im talking)

This does not imply that an item has a warranty of two years or six years respectively. It merely permits an individual to make a claim under certain circumstances within that time period, e.g. should a fault be proven to have been inherent in the first six months.
(yes im claiming its got an inherent defect in its design so that would have been there since day one)

Amazon do not provide the warranty. We do, however, cover our obligations under the relevant legislation such as the Sales of Goods Act 1979 in the UK. Under the Sale of Goods Act, a consumer is granted recourse against a seller of goods if those goods were defective at the time of purchase. This may include, in certain circumstances, repair, refund or replacement but only to the extent that doing so is not disproportionate to the value of the goods, having regard to the use the customer has already had of the goods and the nature of the goods.
(yes sony provided me a warranty, you provided me the product the contracts with you, yes i did enjoy it but for £300 i was hoping to enjoy it a hell of a lot more)

You purchased your product approximately 19 months ago and, until recently, have used it successfully and reported no fault with the product. Given your satisfactory use of the product for a period of time which exceeded the manufacturer's warranty period, it is not established that the product did not conform to the contract (i.e. was defective) at the time of purchase.
(it has an inherent fault in its design that seems to manifest randomly throughout the life of the product, and it didnt conform to my expectations i.e it broke)

The information you have provided does not constitute proof.
(i'm sorry i left my engineering degree in the other room yes indeed i have no proof nor do i have the money to pay someone to obtain proof, but i did show that there is a problem, by saying search the net for YLOD, by saying view watchdog and well darn it there is)

In the absence of any additional evidence indicating that this product may have suffered an inherent defect, Amazon.co.(uk) is not in a position to offer any additional assistance in repairing or replacing your product.
(so with proof you'll change your mind, that sounds hopeful)

Please note that the manufacturer is often in a better position than the retailer to deal with technical problems affecting their products. As they have already provided a resolution we cannot offer anything further.
(the manufacturer doesnt care they just want my money well they already have my money now they want more of my money)

Thank you for your attention to this email.
(pleasure really)

Regards
(im sure)

(his name again dont want to be mean)
Executive Customer Relations
Amazon.co.(uk)

basic fob off as i expected... now heres were i need help can anyone help me word a reply better arguing that there is an obviouse problem as that is there big excuse, ty

Thanatos

Got the reply from Total Console Repair.

Dont think HMV have a leg to stand on now to be honest...

Hi mr Thanatos

Sorry for the delay, Here are the answers to you questions below

In your professional opinion, was the fault with the machine due to accidental damage? No.
2. In your professional opinion, was the fault due to normal wear and tear (bearing in mind its age of 2 years 4 months)? In my opinion, the PS3 console should still be working long after two years and 3 months.
3. In your professional opinion, was the fault inherent in the machine at time of purchase (e.g. Was it the failure of a component that would have normally been expected to last longer than 2 years 4 months)? Yes.
Scott Terrell

Repair Technician

Of course, even if i do get the money back for the repair from HMV now, I still have a bricked PS3 as Sony refuse to admit liability for the firmware upgrade that killed it... still, at least I got the Ghostbusters game back!

Not giving up hope yet - I figure Watchdog might be interested in a story where I have a report confirming the fault is inherent in the machine... especially if I get the money to get it fixed from HMV.

I would hope HMV would at that point put the pressure on Sony...

hewbob

well i tried asking amazon to let a repair company look at it and provide a report explaining the problem and the cause.they quite simply said not there problem, very dismayed by this. they did however offer me £30 cash or a £40 gift certificate, what do you think take the pitiful offer or try trading standards? any opinions welcome.

ps i have the various e-mails if anyone wants to read them

WebMaster_2

Finally Sony got back to me, this is their reply..........

Thank you for your recent correspondence concerning your PlayStation.

I am sorry to hear of the difficulties that you are experiencing with your PlayStation. I am concerned that you feel aggrieved about our warranty terms and conditions.

First of all I would like to reassure you regarding the quality of our products. All PlayStations are manufactured to a very high standard and our failure rate is well below the consumer electronics industry standard. Whilst every effort is made to prevent failure, it is inevitable, given the technological complexity of PlayStation, that a small percentage of units will fail. The manufacturer's warranty on our product runs from the date of purchase for a period of 12 months. Within this period, the small number of manufacturing anomalies would be identified and rectified by Sony Computer Entertainment at our cost.

In line with industry standards, following the 12-month warranty period, any replacement carries a set charge. In this instance, however, we are unable to waive the charge as your PlayStation is now some months beyond the period covered under warranty.

As our consumer care team advised you, we are able to replace your console with a remanufactured unit. All these units have undergone a rigorous repair procedure where all faulty or worn parts are replaced. Units are then cosmetically and technically tested before being released. We are able to offer this service for a charge of £128.00, which includes next working day courier delivery to any UK address and VAT. This charge covers all costs incurred by Sony Computer Entertainment UK for the remanufacturing of any unit. No profit is made from the charge paid by you.

Should you wish to opt for this service, please call our Careline, on 08705 99 88 77 (National Rate), where an advisor will be happy to assist you. Our operating hours are 8am - 10pm Monday to Friday, 10am - 6pm Saturday, Sunday and Bank Holidays.


Yours sincerely,




So, no help there then, back to the credit card company.
This is the worst 'pass the parcel' i have ever been in !!

Thanatos

hewbob wrote: »

well i tried asking amazon to let a repair company look at it and provide a report explaining the problem and the cause.they quite simply said not there problem, very dismayed by this. they did however offer me £30 cash or a £40 gift certificate, what do you think take the pitiful offer or try trading standards? any opinions welcome.

ps i have the various e-mails if anyone wants to read them

Personally, I would go down the repair route (cheaper than Sony's swap a box method anyway) and then send amazon the report and threaten to take them to small claims as you have fulfilled your reponsiblity under the sale of goods act (namely that the onus is on you to prove it is an inherent fault with the machine). If they show that to their legal dept, they dont have a leg to stand on. If I manage to get the cash back from HMV, I would be happy to pass on the details on my story so you can provide an example of other companies who have paid up.


My current status is I had to resend the email to HMV as they couldnt open it lol

Thanatos

WebMaster wrote: »

Finally Sony got back to me, this is their reply..........

Thank you for your recent correspondence concerning your PlayStation.

I am sorry to hear of the difficulties that you are experiencing with your PlayStation. I am concerned that you feel aggrieved about our warranty terms and conditions.

First of all I would like to reassure you regarding the quality of our products. All PlayStations are manufactured to a very high standard and our failure rate is well below the consumer electronics industry standard. Whilst every effort is made to prevent failure, it is inevitable, given the technological complexity of PlayStation, that a small percentage of units will fail. The manufacturer's warranty on our product runs from the date of purchase for a period of 12 months. Within this period, the small number of manufacturing anomalies would be identified and rectified by Sony Computer Entertainment at our cost.

In line with industry standards, following the 12-month warranty period, any replacement carries a set charge. In this instance, however, we are unable to waive the charge as your PlayStation is now some months beyond the period covered under warranty.

As our consumer care team advised you, we are able to replace your console with a remanufactured unit. All these units have undergone a rigorous repair procedure where all faulty or worn parts are replaced. Units are then cosmetically and technically tested before being released. We are able to offer this service for a charge of £128.00, which includes next working day courier delivery to any UK address and VAT. This charge covers all costs incurred by Sony Computer Entertainment UK for the remanufacturing of any unit. No profit is made from the charge paid by you.

Should you wish to opt for this service, please call our Careline, on 08705 99 88 77 (National Rate), where an advisor will be happy to assist you. Our operating hours are 8am - 10pm Monday to Friday, 10am - 6pm Saturday, Sunday and Bank Holidays.


Yours sincerely,




So, no help there then, back to the credit card company.
This is the worst 'pass the parcel' i have ever been in !!

I would go down the same route that I just mentioned to Hewbob - Sony have no legal obligation to sort this out, whereas the shop that sold it to you do (as does the credit card company). Again, happy to provide my details if I manage to get a sucess.