Getting married when you already live together, have children and the rest anyway!

Mrs_Ryan

I've been crying most of last night and a lot of today about an argument that me and the boyfriend had last night. He said that he doesnt see why we cant just live together for life and he doesnt want to get married because he doesnt want to be tied to one person! he also said we could have kids if I concieved naturally (he said this I suspect because he knows I cant) and he refuses to allow me to have IVF!
He also said he would make a will leaving the house to me but I told him to forget it - I didnt want it. I told him that he wont get a penny if I die (I've deliberately arranged for my pension monies etc to be paid to my NOK - ie not him) He then said as far as he's concerned we will still be living together and not married in 40 years and I told him to get lost - he will be lucky if were still together in 4 years, never mind 40!!!
Emma, I am so sorry to hear what happened - thank you for sharing your story.

Pssst

gorgeous_gwen wrote: »

When I originally posted, after doing some thinking, I texted boyf saying I thought we should just forget about all things marriage as I felt he was not feeling it at the moment and should wait until he's more into the idea.

Two days later he's hardly said a word about it. He made reference to the fact he was really busy at work so couldn't reply, which is often the case, but he hasn't said anything, apart from earlier on this evening when I was on the computer and he asked what I was looking at and after hesitating, said I was posting on a weddings website. He asked if I was complaining about him to which I answered no, and that was it.

I was as I'd mentioned intending to talk about it but bubs has made it very difficult these last two evenings by not going to sleep until very late (thus me being on here now!) Can't be helped but even when we have had five minutes, he's not said anything. Irritating as anything as it's been on my mind constantly but I put money on him not having thought about it at all

It's far too late now tonight to talk to him about it but I do intend (when bubs allows!) to sit him down and have a talk about it.

Oh Gwen....what are you thinking about? Do not on any account conduct such important business via the medium of text.

You know it dont you? Its an avoidance technique. You get to say what you want without confrontation and crucially,without having someone facing you and telling you something you dont want to hear and which might be hurtful.


You have a child together,no idea how long you have been together,but it is too important an issue to mess about with txt messages. Thats what they do on Jeremy Kyle. It isnt an adult way of doing things.

No pain no gain Gwen. You must have these conversations face to face,with raw and brutal honesty. If you dont,it will just drag on and on and on and the resentment will build.

Pssst

Pee wrote: »

For people who don't want to have sex before marriage, no harm in living together with separate beds - for the holiday though those twin beds would need to be in the same room, to check snoring and mess compatability.

There is just a chance that there is some sexual incompatibility so wouldnt that be an issue having got married without at least a trial run?

stingeylass

Marcheline wrote: »

However, I have said that I will not be doing anything like this unless we are married. My thinking is that unless there's a bit of pressure, he will not propose for quite some time yet (he's comfortable as he is) but we would like more children (but I will not be having anymore until marriage) and a career of my own, so I want us to get a move on on the marriage front as this will allow for more children in a sensible time frame etc.

I also have a date in my head for leaving, if a proposal has not been forthcoming by then. I know that might sound a bit harsh to some people, but I do not intend to be hanging around throughout my 20s for a proposal that might never come. It is as if we are married anyway, so if he does not want to make if official, I intend to leave as he will have made it clear where he stands.

But, if you desperately want to get married and are waiting for a proposal, why can't you be the one that proposes to him?

Pssst

miserly_mum wrote: »

Even now I believe a lot of men don't want to or put off get married because it still signifies loss of freedom to them.

Are you making a statement of fact there MM or are you scorning the very thought??

PS for some reason i have this vision of you as Mrs Doyle from father Ted...do forgive me...

angel_delight

:rotfl:at the pic above, i'm sure MM will be flattered.;)

Have been following this thread with interest anyway as I guess at times i've felt the same way as the O.P and others. Some of the posts give much food for thought and are very sad. Sorry to hear about your partner Emma & all that you went through.:sad:

In my 20's I was engaged to my eldest childrens dad for nine years. Was very loved up in the beginning obviously and all for marriage but because we had the kids young and also because I was a bit fussy nothing else would do other than one of those fancy weddings abroad on some tropical beach with the honeymoon rolled into one which meant a lot of saving up. (Although I did use to say to him jokingly I'm keeping my surname as I wasn't keen on his,lol).

As the years went by though although I still loved him and liked being engaged (false sense of security maybe?) I actually went off the idea of marrying him. There were too many issues in the relationship making me unhappy sometimes. Every now and then he used to question if we'd ever get married (even cheaply in a registry office) but by 5-6 yrs in the relationship I couldn't even justify that- not when ever lasting problems seemed to be never resolved or resurface. A small part of me thought if were still together by the time the kids have left home and reasonably happy having put the issues behind me just maybe then it might be worth it?

Justifying it to others was just as difficult- had all the jokes about am I trying to get a world record for the longest engagement? or why on earth did I get engaged in the first place if i'm not going to eventually marry? Then you hear of all those stories of long term couples getting married after x amount of years together only to split up not long after like it had cursed it or something- that didn't help. I'd tell others "oh well it's just a ring/piece of paper", that doesn't prove how much you love eachother. Deep down I think I knew our relationship was going nowhere but fear of lonliness/the unknown/bringing kids up as a single mum kept me clinging on. I used to think to myself well i've got two young kids etc etc..who else is going to want me now?, that's even if I get the chance to get out as a singleton and meet someone (wrong attitude to take I know). When the relationship did end (and that's another long story altogether) I still felt utterly devestated though which some might think strange.

Because he became bitter/got nasty after and irronically jumped into marriage with a just as pyscho woman on the rebound not long after we split I eventually realised in some ways it had been a blessing that I hadn't married him with the council house being in my name and knowing he couldn't just take half it's contents of which mostly my mum had helped finacially to buy. Plus having full parental responsibilty of the kids (because of when they were born) turned out to be a small mercy because of the way he used them to put me through hell.

Anyway roll on several years- new relationship, another child and it's like the tables have turned on me ironically. My current partner and I are not perfect together by a long shot (complete oppisites some might say) but we love eachother. He's always stated he never wants to marry (doesn't see the point/makes no difference/too costly etc- same old excuses I use to use previously). Actually no come to think about it he did say in a lovey dovey letter once he couldn't wait for me to be his wife, it would make him so happy- but that was before we lived together (says it all..ha ha).

Most of the time I feel like I did in my previous relationship as time has gone on- happy enough plodding along in a co-habitating relationship. But there are times when I don't know sadness creeps in. I'm in my 30's now and more people around me I have seen get married or engaged over the last few years- old school mates, my younger sister. It irks me after nearly 7 1/2 years together I have to still refer to him as "my partner" or he buys me "happy birthday/merry christmas Girlfriend" cards which is what he refers to me as to others when not using " the missus". It feels like i'm no more than some teenage girl he's just been dating a couple of months- like I simply mean nothing more to him that just that even if he states it's not true. There's a tinge of jealousy too I suppose seeing/hearing about others getting excited organising their weddings. Almost like a sense of loss..like i'm missing out on something. Have horrible visions of being one of those lonely old spinster types who's missed out on having her special day.

I think sometimes I get paranoid thinking surely if he loved me that much after seven years and a child together he'd at least consider it/get engaged- that's the part that bugs me the most I think. It's almost like even if we didn't do the deed just the fact of being asked/he'd considered it/wanted enough to do it on his own accord would be re-assuring. There's this horrible sense of just because he won't contemplate that i'm really not as loved/special to him as he makes out, like he's leaving his options open to make it easy if/when he hopes to meet someone more better/compatible. Of course he says that's nonsense but I can't help wondering?

The older i'm getting the more I have nagging doubts of feeling vulnerable/unsettled at the prospect of just remaining in a relationship like this yet it didn't bother me so much in my 20's even though I still had kids. I broached the marriage topic again recently to him as from the past year or so he's been getting into Christianity in a big way and is quick enough to chuck bible quotes at me during certain heated situations/conversations wev'e had. I had wondered if all this had made an impact/change on his views considering having our daughter together hadn't made an ounce of difference. Which it had to extent in that he realises how important it is to devout Christians/in the eyes of God, yet obviously still not enough for himself which does seem somewhat slightly hypocritical.

Reading that phrase "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" in the o.p's first post the other night I began to question whether that really was my o.h all over- selfish in wanting/getting his needs without ever wanting to properly commit and if so what does that make me for allowing it to continue year after year? I even put the phrase to him asking if he thought it applied to him and a lot of other men out there although he hadn't a clue what I was on about until I elaborated slightly and even then he didn't quite understand what the cow signified. This from a bloke who's always making out he's a darn sight lot more intelligent than me during heated tiff's just because I watch trashy Eastenders and not documentries much like himself,lol. Following on from seeing if Christianity had changed his outlook on marriage I did play the hard done by not special/loved enough act and straight after nookie too so he was in a top mood. Maybe he felt slight guilt on my behalf or maybe it was the Christian hypocrisy that got to him as he muttered something like "You never know- maybe one day i'll surprise you" before rolling over to sleep. Yes and pigs might fly I thought too..probably got more chace of winning the lottery.

Anyway soon after usually having these occasional vulnerable sad moments within a day or two i'm quite contented to be back to just Ms co-habitator normally because he's got on my nerves or narked me off big time again. On that basis I have to keep reminding myself him not wanting to marry me shouldn't be too much of a loss.:rotfl:

Well this post is far longer than I intended it to be..but hey it helps getting it all out of our systems doesn't it? OP I do hope everything works out okay for you, that your partner does mean what he says and is not just delaying time to fob you off in the hope you won't bring it up again for a couple years. It's hard to tell sometimes with some blokes? If two years has gone by and he's still saying the same you'll probably know deep down. Then it would be time to question how important is marriage to you- surely not worth breaking up for/moving on (especially if you have kids & he loves you just as much regardless) or accepting it and remaining as you are? Maybe it's just a case of a few underlying issues in your relationship which might need work that's putting him off- who knows? Men can be difficult to get to open up at the best of times. :rolleyes:

Kind of positive sign there him asking about the ring you like even if slightly sloshed. Maybe if your birthday is coming up or nearer Christmas time you could take him shopping, point it out in the jewellers and mention how you'd love to open that up on your birth/xmas day. If that's not a big enough hint i'm not sure what is? If your brave enough/getting desperate maybe over the course of the next year you could save up/arrange it all hush hush with family/inlaws/friends then make out you've both been invited to a wedding. Little does he know- his own. How this would go down though only you might know.:D

lynzpower

Mrs_Ryan wrote: »

I've been crying most of last night and a lot of today about an argument that me and the boyfriend had last night. He said that he doesnt see why we cant just live together for life and he doesnt want to get married because he doesnt want to be tied to one person! he also said we could have kids if I concieved naturally (he said this I suspect because he knows I cant) and he refuses to allow me to have IVF!
He also said he would make a will leaving the house to me but I told him to forget it - I didnt want it. I told him that he wont get a penny if I die (I've deliberately arranged for my pension monies etc to be paid to my NOK - ie not him) He then said as far as he's concerned we will still be living together and not married in 40 years and I told him to get lost - he will be lucky if were still together in 4 years, never mind 40!!!
Emma, I am so sorry to hear what happened - thank you for sharing your story.

Mrs R,

Ive seen a few posts from you like this over thelast few weeks. It really doesnt sound like a great relationship hun- are yousure you want to carry on like this? , sending you strength xx

miserly_mum

Pssst wrote: »

Are you making a statement of fact there MM or are you scorning the very thought??

PS for some reason i have this vision of you as Mrs Doyle from father Ted...do forgive me...

Hahaha my tache is much bigger than hers:o

No I did say that I "believed" a lot of men associated marriage with loss of freedom. That of course doesn't mean all men.

However a lot of my /our male friends (even the now happily married ones) admit that the thought was there

It doesn't help that even in this day and age there are still ladies who, once they snare their man in holy matrimony do think he should suddenly stop going out without them, have hobbies that include seeing his mates and going to the pub etc etc.

Again that's not a sweeping statement about all ladies but they are still out there and I know quite a few. That could explain why I also know so many reluctant grooms :rotfl:

How many men (compared to women) post on here looking for advice because their girlfriends aren't interested in marrying them? Very few if any.

Dinah93

Mrs_Ryan wrote: »

I've been crying most of last night and a lot of today about an argument that me and the boyfriend had last night. He said that he doesnt see why we cant just live together for life and he doesnt want to get married because he doesnt want to be tied to one person! he also said we could have kids if I concieved naturally (he said this I suspect because he knows I cant) and he refuses to allow me to have IVF!
He also said he would make a will leaving the house to me but I told him to forget it - I didnt want it. I told him that he wont get a penny if I die (I've deliberately arranged for my pension monies etc to be paid to my NOK - ie not him) He then said as far as he's concerned we will still be living together and not married in 40 years and I told him to get lost - he will be lucky if were still together in 4 years, never mind 40!!!
Emma, I am so sorry to hear what happened - thank you for sharing your story.

Mrs Ryan, I posted on a thread you started in a similar vein about 3 months ago. I have to ask why you are still there? This seems to be a really, really, really unhealthy relationship, no respect for one another from either side. You want children, and you're nearly 30 and know it won't happen without help, don't you think you need to start looking for your Mr Right soon, and stop settling for Mr Right-here? x

margaretclare

Mrs Ryan, I'd absolutely hate to be told by any bloke that he 'doesn't want to be tied to one person'. The corollary of this is that he wants the freedom to sleep around, play the field, still look for Miss Right if she appears, and you are just a convenience for him. The inference is that you will still be there and he can come back to your bed and your table from someone else's.

He would be shown the door quicker than that, told to go and never come back, just leave his keys behind.

All this stuff about leaving you the house is irrelevant. You still have a life to live before you start thinking about what to leave each other.

Where's your self-respect? Instead of sitting around crying - a useless occupation - grow yourself some backbone.

Said with the kindest of intentions!