MSE Parents Club Part 3

Fritha_2

Thank you Bruno, would it help you I told you Dr Sears says that children as a general rule children can only get themselves to sleep from around 2-4 years of age? He says nursing to sleep is a normal and natural thing (there's a hormone in breastmilk that sends them to sleep) I think it might even be an anthrapological (sp?) thing, if they nurse to sleep they're close to mum so they know it's safe to sleep?

If it's causing you problems then do tackle it but if it's just that you feel guilty then don't, he will grow out of it just just takes time.

Celia only ever nurses to sleep or falls asleep in the sling but slowly I can see her growing out of it, she now comes off before she falls asleep and has even napped in the pram a couple of times. I'm not expecting her to change anytime soon but for now I'm happy to wait it out! It's hard to take the leap of faith but I've got everything crossed (and I've made sure I have my prozac on repeat prescription!)

But, I'm gradually becoming more and more of a hippy!

Krystaltips

Aimee was an appalling sleeper... She wouldn't go to sleep until about 10pm and would wake hourly/2hourly every night, never slept more than 20mins during the day... I tried pretty much everything, controlled crying didn't work because she'd cry until she was sick, pick up put down worked to a certain extent but then she went through a phase of screaming when I picked her up so I just used to stand next to her and pat her.... She always ended up in bed with me, eventually I just accepted that she wouldn't be there forever and as long as I could sleep next to her (I was exhausted through lack of sleep, of course I slept with her next to me!) eventually she settled into her own rythmn and by about 3 1/2 was going through the night in her own bed mostly (Or if she woke, she would come in for a cuddle then toddle off back to her own bed... I was always happy to oblige this, I like to know she feels loved ) She's 5 now and still not a great sleeper, we put her up at 7... She goes to sleep about 9 and is always up before 7... She's just someone who doesn't need so much sleep...

I suppose what my ramble means is... It gets better... Eventually... Hang in there

Sami_Bee

Fritha wrote: »

My rice cakes don't get chance to go manky now! I've got the organix apple ones and I eat them faster than she does they're gorgeous!

Told you they were scrummy :cool:

r.mac_2

Fritha wrote: »

Do you want my honest opinion r mac? And feel free to ignore it, I don't for a moment claim to be right! Stop fighting it, she will go to sleep if you nurse her so nurse her to sleep. Then take it from there. The softly softly approach has worked well for us and repeat repeat repeat. She has a bath/story at 6.45 (usually) into a sleepsuit and we sing at song at 7.15ish then she nurses to sleep. We pop her in bed (she usually stirs a little so she knows she being moved) and if she wakes up she comes back for some more milk and we repeat that until she stays where she is. She's an appalling sleeper but it got so much easier to deal with once I accepted that I need to wait until she can do this stuff by herself. Dr Sears says that learning to fall asleep by themselves is a developmental milestone but having said all of that Elizabeth Pantley has very good advice. We use some of her techniques. One of my friends gave me the best advice I've ever been given: "If it's not a problem for you it's not a problem"

Have a dodgy hug btw, sleep deprivation is quite literally torture (I think some nights I'd confess to anything for just a bit more sleep!) :grouphug:

Thanks fritha - honest opinions are what I was looking for. To an extent I totally agree with you, I just have two little problems. Firstly, I don't mind nursing to sleep but nursing back to sleep several times in the night is exhausting me and DH can't help much if that's what she's looking for meaning no respite! Also, I have milk supply problems and I can see that my milk isn't going to be around for an awful lot longer.......I was thinking about stopping BF completely at 6 months but not sure if that's going to be possible if nursing will be the only way to get her to sleep. But you are right - if it works why not stick with it

BrunoM wrote: »

R.mac - your situation sounds quite similar to ours, and I can only urge you, from a position 6 months ahead of yours, to try to get it sorted now

We didn't (largely because of the reflux issue, we felt we should keep feeding him on-demand to help with his weight, and we worried that he was waking up in real reflux pain...) and it is a real millstone by now at 11 months I am truly terrified of it continuing til he's 18 months/3 years/7 years etc.

It's not THAT awful, not so bad that it sounds really extreme to other people, but I think we just had an expectation that by now he'd be working things out better somehow, instead of still waking very upset twice a night, needing lengthy rocking and soothing or a breastfeed before settling, and having no really effective daytime nap routine and never, ever, sleeping without booby involved.

It's come close to spoiling our 3 week California holiday we're finishing tomorrow, especially as he has entered a 'control' phase or something while we've been here, where his previous very successful bedtime routine now makes him very angry and scream for 10 minutes before sleep. I'm pretty committed to trying baby whisperer pick-up-put-down stuff from when we get back (after giving him a day or three to adjust time zones maybe).
A few months ago I read a load of sleep training books and articles, and I can't handle CC (which is unfortunate as it's basically what OH wants) - pickup put down was the one that stood out for me as a maybe.

Good luck with whatever method you go for!

Edit: Fritha sounds very sensible in her post! It's just that for us, not doing anything didn't work out

bruno - I totally sympathise and understand :cool: My mum tells me I never slept through the night until I was over 3 and I really can't cope with that so am trying to get it sorted out now.

I was happy to go with CC but when we tried it the first time it was obvious she was too young (4 months) and now at 5 months DH has confessed he can't go down that route - I understand and I'm happy to try something else, i'm just not sure what. Typically the HV shakes her head and says 'do what you feel comfortable with' instead of suggesting things to try :rolleyes:

will see what this book I've ordered has to say - in the meantime we are sticking with the routine we have and hoping a miracle may strike:rotfl:

r.mac_2

Sami_Bee wrote: »

R.mac it sounds like you have a pretty good routine at night already! Does she wake when you transfer to cot? Is that the problem? (sorry but to laid back me it all sounds fine )
I used to do as you for chris - let him fall asleep on my lap/shoulder and pop in crib.
It might help if you look at gina ford's book as I know she has a set routine for different ages - if maybe someone has it and could type up the one for your stage or have a peek in the library Hth

thanks sami - i think our routine is ok aswell - it's more the getting her to sleep bit I'm stumped on and was wondering what others did differently for some inspiration. GF didn't really work for us either - we did follow her routines when LO was a newborn, but typically LO hadn't read the book :rotfl:

Krystaltips wrote: »

Aimee was an appalling sleeper... She wouldn't go to sleep until about 10pm and would wake hourly/2hourly every night, never slept more than 20mins during the day... I tried pretty much everything, controlled crying didn't work because she'd cry until she was sick, pick up put down worked to a certain extent but then she went through a phase of screaming when I picked her up so I just used to stand next to her and pat her.... She always ended up in bed with me, eventually I just accepted that she wouldn't be there forever and as long as I could sleep next to her (I was exhausted through lack of sleep, of course I slept with her next to me!) eventually she settled into her own rythmn and by about 3 1/2 was going through the night in her own bed mostly (Or if she woke, she would come in for a cuddle then toddle off back to her own bed... I was always happy to oblige this, I like to know she feels loved ) She's 5 now and still not a great sleeper, we put her up at 7... She goes to sleep about 9 and is always up before 7... She's just someone who doesn't need so much sleep...

I suppose what my ramble means is... It gets better... Eventually... Hang in there

thanks - I believe you

My_Fathers_Daughter

r.mac wrote: »

MFD - you always say the right thing

MacSmiler - it is easy to be objective about somebody elses situation...just imagine what you would say to me or anybody else about a few key sentences

Just to make it interesting...I have added some comments in white that you can highlight and look at afterwards!!!

I really need to get this sleeping thing working - I see it as my job to help her learn to go to sleep, but I'm a bit stumped on how to get there. So can I have some ideas please? What's your bedtime routine and how did you get LO to go to sleep themselves?
Interesting choice of 'my' not 'our' and 'job'...not wanting to get all psycho babble with you but I am sure you get my point!!!

we have playtime with daddy when he comes home from work (about 6.30pm), a bit of kicking without nappy on while bath and clothes etc being sorted out, then daddy baths and then we get dried, creamed, nappied and dressed and into sleeping bag, then cuddles, bottle and bed (7.30pmish). However bottle takes place on my lap and it either conks her out or I have to nurse her to sleep after her bottle. Then we transfer her to her cot. I think it's the last bit we have to change, but to what I don't know.

IMHO LO is still only a baby and does it really matter how she gets into her cot as long as she does? I know that this is not what you are getting at but if it takes you 20 mins of cuddling LO to get her to sleep every night for the first year or however long is it necessarily wrong?
If she doesn't go down into her cot that may be a different matter...but if she does....

CC isn't for us - we've tried it and it's not a way forward for us.
Here Here!!

She's never taken a dummy and TBH at 21wks I don't want to try and introduce one now.
Why not?
I remember SB once saying that she is not a 'dummy snob' and it really struck a cord with me. I WAS a dummy snob...I think I still am a bit BUT introducing a dummy to Benjamin (he has only been taking it for about 10 days) made a HUGE difference to us. Before that I fed him to sleep every night, now he goes down on his own.
Benjamin only has a dummy for sleeping, when he is asleep he spits it out and I move it out of the way. I will give it to Santa (or the Dummy Fairy) as soon as I can!!).

During the night she wakes 2-3 times depending on how she feels - but can and sometimes does go from 9-5/6am, just not very often.


weaning her hasn't impacted on her sleep at all. I've upped her milk intake during the day to see if it's hunger - but this has had little effect and some days she's hungrier than others. For example she ate and ate and ate yesterday, but isn't interested at all today?!

Some days I am hungrier than others too...depends on how I feel....

Also daytime naps are becoming more and more of an issue - not so much while out and about during the day as she'll sleep or play in her pram and sleeps if we are in the car. At home is a nightmare - it's back to nursing her after 2hrs of being awake and sometimes even that doesn't help and we just have screaming (like this morning), which makes me feel so bad - for her and me. It's like she hates me and is letting me know what she thinks of my parenting abilities!!!! Oh and during the day she will only sleep 30m - 45m at a time.

Are you saying that you expect her to sleep every 2 hours?
Why is she screaming - because she is tired? Overtired? Because she is unhappy / uncomfortable / being made to sleep when she wants to play?
As for the bit in bold - I would slap you if I could lady :mad:
If she only wants to sleep 30-45 mins is that a problem? That's all Benjamin sleeps during the day!! Usually it is more like 20m at a time!!!

I want to try and get a bit more of a defined time line into our day - I'm happy to beb flexible, but I think it would really help us. Can I ask what kind of routine everyone else follows i.e. breakfast time, nap times.

sorry for the essay - just trying to sort ourselves out a bit. Spoke to my friend who is going to the 'sleep lady', and her comment was that the lady wanted you to have a routine in place before starting on her techniques (whatever they are!) as apparently this can help solve some sleep problems immediately. I'll try anything!

I would try relaxing and stopping worrying and going with the flow for a while - most people will disagree with me!!



Please take this in the right way - I am by no means saying that WE have got this sleeping lark cracked...I just know that the minute I stopped panicking about having a routine and getting Benjamin to sleep how I thought he should sleep, he seemed to sort himself out


I would be fascinated to see how your responses related to mine :cool:

feelinggood_2

r.mac wrote: »

Firstly, I don't mind nursing to sleep but nursing back to sleep several times in the night is exhausting me and DH can't help much if that's what she's looking for meaning no respite! Also, I have milk supply problems and I can see that my milk isn't going to be around for an awful lot longer.......I was thinking about stopping BF completely at 6 months but not sure if that's going to be possible if nursing will be the only way to get her to sleep. But you are right - if it works why not stick with it

Not to everyones taste, but would cosleeping be an option? DS feeds 2-4 times a night, and having him in bed makes it so easy. I pretty much doze during feeding him, and we both fall back to sleep very quickly.

Can I ask what makes you think you have supply problems? Are you doing anything to improve supply?

Millie's_Mum

RMac How much sleep does she get through the day? It sounds ridiculous but I find that babies sleep much better at night if they have had enough sleep during the day and are not overtired when you put them down at night. It might just be something to look at?

Are you keeping a sleep diary so you can identify any patterns, you say she is capable of sleeping but doesn't often, if you keep a sleep diary it might help you identify why she sleeps well some nights.

Big hugs in the meantime, sleep problems are really hard to deal with, try not to be too hard on your OH, its not his fault (that he's a man and is incapable of knowing the right thing to do/say).

Fritha_2

r.mac wrote: »

Firstly, I don't mind nursing to sleep but nursing back to sleep several times in the night is exhausting me and DH can't help much if that's what she's looking for meaning no respite!

The more you nurse her the more milk you'll have, so it may help with the milk supply problems? (in theory!) But I do see where you're coming from, our routine is that she wakes up, Himself goes to get her, I give her milk while watching videos on his iPod (I can't nurse lying down, oh hang on, could you do that? Then at least you're resting?) then he pops her back in bed once she's asleep. If she wakes early in the morning he gets up and he sees to her if she doesn't want milk and just gives her to me to get her to sleep. It took us months to find what worked for us!

I had a point, oh yes, if you start with nursing her to sleep (possibly lying down so you can rest) then you can use some of Elizabeth Pantley's techniques to wean her off nursing to sleep, hopefully if you're all feeling more chilled it'll be easier to do?

MrsTinks

Interesting MFD - I haven't concentrated on trying to keep any kind of routine - figuring that at 6 weeks it was a tad early yet! However I'm happy to not have a routine because I'm not a very routine kinda person anyway At the moment Roo falls asleep on one of us at night or in her jungle swing (during the day she's happy to stay in there snoozing for quite a while some times!).
Today we had my 6 week check, then booby cafe and as we left we got caught in a torrential rainstorm and Roo got damp and I got soaked! She seemed totally unperturbed - then we got home and inside and OMG did she test out her lungs! Nearly an hour of top of her lungs screaming. Didn't want bottle, burping didn't make a difference - nothing worked... then suddenly she just ran out of steam and as I sense a slowing in her howls I just held her closer to my chest and shushed her gently and she's now been out cold for 2 hours...
I've managed to stick the spuds on for dinner - not got much washing done though - hohum!