Anyone sent their dog off to training camp??

marshallka

MrsTine wrote: »

Poor lad - sorry to hear his eyes are not improving
I don't suppose you could change where you walk him for a week? Just to see if there IS an environmental factor anywhere? I'd think you're more likely to find it's hayfever (they can develop this at any point in life - even this late...) or an allergy than chemicals used by someone...
If you and the vet think it could be a reaction to something then my first point of call would be things you use at home - washing powder, cleaning things, floor disinfectants etc or even dust... (not saying your home is dusty however I have an allergy towards old house dust myself so I know how annoying it can be and my house doesn't have to be "dusty" for me to notice it )
Personally I like Cesar but I think from your perspective the best thing you can do is look at how philisophy and not his training methods - I don't want to sound patronising but I don't think you're at a point of being able to analyse your dog or your state of mind enough to try his methods
However you seem to have already sussed that so carry on Being calm and in control is the first step and mental stimulation is just as important to a collie as running round like a nutter in the field for an hour

Hi Mrs Tine. I like caesar to a point but only for his philosophy on dogs. Not quite his methods but I like how he gets into the dogs mind. I have learnt from him that dogs think dog and humans think human and they are completely different. Still learning though myself. I am certainly no expert but at least we are seeing little breakthroughs.

Today his eyes are not quite so runny as yesterday but we do not have the sun the same. Also I have not let him run in the long grass either so maybe that is a factor. We shall know tomorrow. As regards dust we have air purifiers everywere and also a hepa filter hoover that is out daily. I think its the fact that they were sore from operating and not healed and then going in the grass again has not helped. How do you keep a dog out of hedges and grasses though. We have them at home. His left eye is open now but looks like a smokey colour blue and completely different than the other one. It looks cloudy if anything but he is not rubbing it so much. I honestly think its nettles. He goes at them headfirst and does not bat an eyelid.

puddy

it sounds to me (although im no dog expert) as if he hasnt got problems with his personality as such, like you say, you couldnt honestly say he IS or ISNT agressive but with certain situations, which to me seems normal.

so desensitizing him to those situations may be the key. i would definately get him done, ours is about 5 or 6 now and we had him done early this year, late yes, but better late than never.

i would honestly say the training and residential was worth the money because it has got the dog to understand how dog social skills work, someting i dont think i am skilled enough to teach him, therefore he is now at a point where we can be taught what to do with a dog that isnt out of control. yes i know all the judgemental opinions of those who disapprove but its about wha is right for you and your circumstances.

are you able to write yourself a list of circumstances where he ALWAYS behaves inapproprately and where you feel unable to control him or cope with it? If so, i would start on those and try to focus on situations that you can control, ie the stay, walking, sitting etc. unfortunately, all us dog owners will never be able to be completelly in control of situations where dogs come running up to ours, there is always the risk that one of them is agressive. another point though is that this trainer told us that when he first introduced our dog to his, his dogs reacted unpredictably with ours, reason being that our dog was so uncontrolled and agressive/fearful that he gave out those anxieties and emotions, meaning that other dogs responded in the same way. he was unlikeable to other dogs. i noticed today that despite all the dogs running around with each other and rough and tumbling, ours did get involved but was more on the outside and i wondered if we have a dog that other dogs dont really choose to be friends with (bit sad really, like having a child that no one in the class wants to be friends with)
perhaps yours is giving off those signals too at the moment, being ill and irritable i should think he is giving off a bit of a vibe.

i also wouldnt get too hung up at the moment on what he achieves, until his eyes are better, you are just in a holding position

marshallka

Well he has been operated on again today. First they did the dye this time and his ulcer is still there so they have done the same again. I noticed on their computer it states "owner is not convinced that dog is aggressive". Now i do think he can be growly and I know that today it was a man vet and although he was muzzled he was "aggressive" until he was sedated of course but he is ill and has poorly eyes. I do know he is aggressive to a point and will sometimes grump at strangers and even me if I disturb him sometimes but always within the same few seconds comes up to me then nudging and licking and pawing so I get mixed signals. They obviously think he is slighly out of the norm though or they would not have made these comments on their computer. I will now have to wait though for a behaviourist again as no-one will look into this until his eyes are healed. Anyone used Bark Busters as they say they guarantee results. Its got to be sorted by the looks of things. I can never get to have a conversation with our vets behaviourist though as she is always dashing up and down and it was actually her that mentioned this PTS to me. I have a price from Alpha and its £930 which is a lot but he is a specialist in it and still ringing around others. Some have yet to get back to me.

puddy

does he know the word NO, do you say this when he growls at people or yourself? does he get any disciplinary reaction from you when he is inappropriate?

last nights walk at the park was ok ish, we let him off the lead, probably a bit prematurely. he doesnt stay when told but will react to NO. he went bounding up to 2 dogs at two different times, one a lab the other a large spaniel. i notices that he sniffs a bit then seemed to growl. as soon as he growled, we said NO loudly, even tho we were a bit of a way away and he then came back, looking all pleased with himself. its slow work but one of the things that ive realised we were doing was when he was agressive in the past and even last nigth to some degree, my first instinct is to call him with his name, well that isnt demonstrating to him that a particular behaviour is wrong and wont be tolerated, so its NO very loudly and firmly until he understands what wont be allowed.

this morning, my partner took him out. he said he was fine until he was alongside another dog, parallel to him and then he pulled at the lead and growled,, so he got a NO and he backed down. this is progress though because he would have lunged at the dog in the past and been out of control, so the fact that he now responds to us disciplining him is very good, we just have to keep it consisten and i will admit i dont trust my partner to be as strict as me.

puddy

do you live anywhere rural, where there are farms and working dogs? is it possible to get hold of an owner of a working collie who could (when he is better) take yours in for a month to get him to a level where he has basic commands and boundaries etc? aparently collies get neurotic when they havent got enough work to do

foreign_correspondent

jenner wrote: »

so the lesson was a good hour and a half, we were then left with our dog and his normal lead. so we did a bit of walking to heel to replicate what we had learned. again bickering broke out because my partner (as i knew he would) started to argue about what he has been told 'oh, we dont need to tell him every time he looks away, oh we dont need to have heel and his name to get his attention'

so he is trying to change what the dog has learned over the past 2 weeks and risks undoing all the good work, i get so annoyed with him.

then the real tester. we went to get his tug toy from the car. then let him off the lead. he is playing fetch when he spots a great big lab bounding over to a ball. he goes to chase the dog and instinctively me and my partner get anxious and he starts calling the dog. our dog actually obeyed and came back. however, my worry is that by callin our dog away from running to dogs whilst he is off the lead, gives him a message that 'other dogs' are something to worry about, be nervous, be aggressive about.
so we had another bicker about this. then he went running to the lab again but he was very well behaved, just did the doggy thing, sniff sniff, looked at each other and came back.

so i am going to put a list of the commands and rules on the fridge door

Jenner, it strikes me that your experiences illustrates one of the big limitions of sending your dog away for training - most dog trainers say that their role is more about 'training the owners', rather than the dog - it sounds like this could well be the case here, as you and your OH have interpreted the advice given differently and still need more 'training' time to learn and embed the new behaviour you need to implement. I hope this can be rectified over the next sessions you have with the trainer! Good luck!

foreign_correspondent

marshallka wrote: »

Anyone used Bark Busters as they say they guarantee results. Its got to be sorted by the looks of things. I can never get to have a conversation with our vets behaviourist though as she is always dashing up and down and it was actually her that mentioned this PTS to me. I have a price from Alpha and its £930 which is a lot but he is a specialist in it and still ringing around others. Some have yet to get back to me.

Bark Busters are a franchise and a bit hit and miss, I think with a dog like yours you need someone collie savvy, and able to read the behaviour not just implement training. Some inept training could actually make him worse.

If the £930 is for three sessions as you said earlier, I think it's likely to be a waste of money, as I think you need long-term, regular training input with you and the dog, so you can both unlearn old, bad habits, and learn new, more effective ways of working with him, preferably from a trainer who has been recommended for working with dogs like yours.

There is no quick fix, these problems have become ingrained over nine years, so I reckon you will need several months of regular input to create lasting change.

MrsTinks

I think FC has said it really this is exactly why I don't believe in residential training courses - you can teach a dog how to behave - I think there are a minimal proportion of dogs that with a good trainer can't be turned into a well behaved dog. Why is it taking me years to train my dog? Because I train her and DH does !!!!!! all and I seem unable to train 95% of the people who come to my house despite the "house rules" posted outside the front door
The biggest hindrance however is my husband without a doubt...
I'm unquestionably the top dog in my hounds eyes but he's her pup and everything is an uphill struggle when he's home...
Our problems range from dog aggression (this is our big problem and will only be cured with lots of doggy interaction - it will take time but we'll persist , to refusing to do as she's told when people come to the door, jumping up at people, begging (definitely down to DH!!) and thinking the cats are toys (3 years of scratched noses and black furballs going nuts at her face STILL hasn't brought this home to her... dimwit) - but persistence will improve all this
When she arrived here she was food aggresive, resource guarding, jumping on sofa's on top of people, pulling on the lead, no heel control at all, seperation anxiety, seriously destructive, no recall and aggressive in unknown situations...
So we HAVE made huge steps forward...
If we can do it then anyone can (and seriously the hard training has been DH... NOT the dog )

Actually I saw something on It's me or the dog US yesterday I might start to implement... instead of sending her to her bed which is in the hall I will create a "place" by the back door that she needs to go to when people come to the door... It will give me more distance to intercept her before she gets to the door and tries to bounce on who-ever is there

puddy

FC, yes you're absolutely right about us needing training, i completely agree but i will still maintain that to have our dog learn 'how to be a dog' intensively for 2 weeks with 8 other dogs is something we could not have put in place for him on our own. and for that it was worth the experience and money.

i have been banging into my partner from the start that this is about us as owners not the dogs behaviour, he agrees but then comes out with stuff that i wrote above, trying to get argumentative about what we have been told, he is a nightmare and the more i analyse it, the more i see that actually my partner and the dog have the same 'collie' mentality, they dont listen unless they want to, question everything, bit nervy and anxious unless engrossed in someting mentally stimulating... the list goes on

its also the issue of consistency, like i say, i know that i put a rule in place and continually correct the dog everytime he does something wrong, my partner is haphazard, he sees a bit of distraction as ok, a bit of pulling as ok, and so on, my rule is that when he is walking to heel he is walking to heel and that is that, but because our main issue was about aggression, if we can fix that we will be 50% there. our next aim is consistent recall and stay

marshallka

Its like the caesar milan "people training" for dogs. Its all our faults really as we try and condition them like humans and then they treat us like dogs....