advice re nans rights to live in own home



  • Errata
    Errata Forumite Posts: 38,230
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Sorry:embarasse I just got out of hospital this afternoon and I'm in a terrible mood. I probably shouldn't be posting on messageboards at the moment as I know I am just taking it out on other people.

    Went in to hospital thursday afternoon after waiting over an hour for the ambulance, when I read the bit in the OP about the poster's nan ringing for paramedics for no good reason I just sort of lost it!

    I'm really sorry :embarasse Didn't mean to get at you at all.....

    No problems - very understandable.
    .................:)....I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...:)
  • Errata
    Errata Forumite Posts: 38,230
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    thats awful, im so sorry to hear it...

    i hate to think of people like you with genuine emergencies having to wait because of people time wasting needlessly,

    i dont blame you for 'losing it' it frustrates the hell out of us!
    as far as im concerned what my nan is doing is no better than people maliciously hoax calling 999, and i dread to think of how many people have had to wait because of her, lets face it, seconds can mean the difference between life and death at times,

    Do you have any idea how often your grandmother calls 999 and how often the call alarm service operators do it on her behalf?
    .................:)....I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...:)
  • Curious_George_2
    Curious_George_2 Forumite Posts: 2,501
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    without speaking to mum, i really wouldnt want to hazard a guess,
    but i know for a fact she had them out at least 4 times last week, and two of those were on the same day!!!
  • Fiver29
    Fiver29 Forumite Posts: 18,620 Forumite
    I haven't read anything except the OP, because I was so incensed from that post I didn't dare read the rest. According to the OP his/her gran is suffering from dementia, but they haven't done anything about finding out how that dementia might affect some one.

    The OP (IMHO) is in serious need of a kick up the backside. And needs to appreciate how others live, instead of living in their little selfish bubble all their lives :mad:
    Moving onto a better place...Ciao :wave:
  • Fiver29
    Fiver29 Forumite Posts: 18,620 Forumite
    I've just read the rest of the thread, and I'm so glad I responded to the OP first, because the air would be blue with the thoughts I have on the OP now. Thank goodness my mum nor my grandparents had family like that :(
    Moving onto a better place...Ciao :wave:
  • LizzieS_2
    LizzieS_2 Forumite Posts: 2,948 Forumite
    Read first post & skimmed through thread.

    I do wonder why the OP did post her hatred for nan - it would have been easier to give the facts and use say a 500 mile distance as a reason why she was relaying the question on behalf of her mum.

    In most cases blood is thicker than water and people do make amends very late in life - maybe the OP was subconsciously asking for help with her ghosts too and unfortunately the responses have just got her back up to the point her view will not change?
  • Savvy_Sue
    Savvy_Sue Forumite Posts: 45,603
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Errata wrote: »
    Do you have any idea how often your grandmother calls 999 and how often the call alarm service operators do it on her behalf?
    I thought that the pendant thing put you through to an operator, who would then (normally) call a keyholder. I suppose if this lady is telling the careline operators that the needs an ambulance they may not have the option of calling a keyholder.

    However, if no-one is willing to be her keyholder, that would probably affect any assessment of whether she could remain at home.

    Having said that, she can't be forced to move into residential care without being sectioned, which is a fairly extreme step.
    Signature removed for peace of mind
  • blue_monkey_2
    blue_monkey_2 Forumite Posts: 11,435 Forumite
    I noticed this thread last night but had nothing important to add.

    But, I just wanted to give the OP some support after everyon started slagging her/him off. I think the thing is, if you have not been a victim of abuse then you really have no idea and can comment on her being heartless. My dad was a vile man and I have cut him out of our lives depsite for years trying to continue a relationship with him. However, he was never going to change so after one outbust from him I did what I had to do and told him that until he apologised (and also outlined the damage his treatment of us had done to my life - for which you could not even imagine) I wanted nothing further to do with him. He will never apologise and to this day I feel nothing for him and realise I never probably did. If he died tomorrow I'd probably nor even go to the funeral as I'd have no-one to grieve, indeed I'd probably be relived because I'd not have to face him again. I am dreading my sisters wedding as he'll be there trying to be all nice. My sister is having her step father give her away, what does that tell you!!

    That too probably sounds heartless but unless you have been at the hands of any abuser do not judge the OP for her feelings towards that abuser. She explained how things were as someone would have been saying 'can you not move in, pop in before and after work, have a rota' etc, etc.... and then she would have had to explain things more that actually the grandmother was an abuser and no, no-one actually really cares. She got it out of the way when she had to.

    No, she has probably not have dealt with her demons, having been a vIctim of abuse there will ALWAYS been demons and no amount of therapy will change that for some people. I am one of them and I'll never been able to forgive. I've moved on but I'll never forgive anyone for ruining my life!!

    OP, I cannot offer any sort of advice but I wanted to say that I totally understand where you are coming from and why you feel like you do and just offer the moral support you have not so far had. I think you are wanting to look after your mum who has to deal with the fall out of your nan, but frankly you could not give two hoots about your nan, which is understandable. I hope that you can find the answers you are looking for.

    But..... I did think of something, I wanted to suggest that your mum moves out and let's your nan get on with it and then she will get the help she needs. At the moment your mum is there and it sounds like she does not want to be because she cannot cope, so if your mum is not there maybe your nan's carers will see what she is really like for themselves and be able to deal with it. She will only be able to put on the act for so long with no-one to speak or cry to. Can your mum not move in with you for a few weeks? Your nan cannot really stay there if she is unable to get up and make herself a drink/food/toilet - will she? That was the only thing I could think of.
  • Curious_George_2
    Curious_George_2 Forumite Posts: 2,501
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    fiver 29 - do you want to rethink that post and come back to repost when it makes sense? finding out how dementia might affect someone? i imagine it effects people in all sorts of different ways...

    your judging me on my feelings for my nan, who i have already stated DESERVES the way i feel about her, and i have also stated MANY time i have nothing to do with her... i dont even see her, you understand now? :rolleyes:
    how about i tell you about my grandad? he was the grandad you would want for yourself and all children, a postman in his working days known all over the town and he was loved by everyone,
    we used to spend all summer out on his veg patch and hiding in the greenhouse from my nan, he used to call us the outsiders because we didnt fit in with her and paid the price,
    out of the blue he had a series of strokes, one after the other and was never the same again, over the years that followed he slowly went blind, almost deaf, lost as much weight as was possible for his tiny frame, lost his mind and wasted away before our eyes, i used to visit him in his care home and sometimes he would cry that his family didnt visit even though we had all been, sometimes he thought i worked there, sometimes he thought i was my mother 30 years previously, sometimes he would just stare at me like he knew me but couldnt place me....i would leave that home in tears every time
    i was with him a few hours before he died, holding his hand, listening to him struggling to breathe and kissing him goodbye knowing that was it....
    not needing to pick up the phone call at 4am.
    so dont you come on here and tell me what a heartless !!!!! i am because YOU have decided you dont like my attitude towards my nan,

    i only posted that we had a history because it would have been quite clear while getting into the details that i have no contact with her and that wasnt what this thread was supposed to become but thanks to a few of you picking up on the really unimportant points off course its gone off in this direction... as i said before, funny how it didnt happen until the thread got moved to the arms... notoriously good for picking a pointless fight.

    thanks LizzieS but im not subconciously using this as any kind of therapy, she is already dead to me, so there is nothing to make up with.
    bluemonkey - i totlally sympathise with you and thanks for sticking up or me, but now the thread is down here i think we are both wasting our time, your right though, unless people have suffered abuse at the hands of a family member they wont understand, if they got beaten for no reason by someone who was supposed to care do you think these holier than thou types would give a stuff how well the person responsible lived the rest of thier life? no, and neither do i
    mum knows she needs to move out but theres so much going on here at the minute i doubt it will happen yet, having said that though, mum isnt there from about 7am til at least 4 or 5pm every day, nan has loads of carers inbetween these times because she cant make a drink, get herself to the loo etc
    i know that shes had to wait so long for someone to come and help her that shes soiled herself before now, because it takes at least 2 people and a hoist to get her up.
  • margaretclare
    margaretclare Forumite Posts: 10,789 Forumite
    I think this is a very difficult problem.

    On the one hand, you have an older person who appears to be in control of her wits and is still compos mentis, although completely out of control as regards any of her most basic functions, like moving independently. As long as she has the say-so, as far as I'm aware she cannot be forced to move into 24-hour care, although the care she requires and is receiving at present, either from carers or from paramedics, would seem to point to that.

    It can become a question of her basic human rights! No one can be forced to go anywhere they don't want to go, unless they commit a crime or become a danger to themselves and/or others, in which latter case they can be 'sectioned' under the Mental Health Acts.

    I have often observed that a person can lose all physical capacity to the extent of not being able to move or do any of the normal basic things we all do, but has not lost the ability to use the tongue, to the extent that the tongue becomes a weapon which can wound and hurt.
    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Æ[/FONT]r ic wisdom funde, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]r wear[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ð[/FONT] ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
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