advice re nans rights to live in own home

smileykylie_2

Your grandmother cannot be forced into respite. Like someone mentioned it comes down to her mental capacity. The mental capacity act came in fairly recently and means that it does not have to be a doctor that assesses whether she has the capacity to make decisions for herself but can be any professional that knows her well. She obviously has a social worker if she has care and you need to speak to them about this.
Mental Capacity assessments (when done properly) are not just a tick box but look at a range of things and should be done over several visits not just on one day as she is at that time.
like eratta says if she has capacity she has a right to live wherever she wants not matter how difficult her behaviour is - do you think it is her behaviour (like you said she has never been the easiest) or a genuine inability to make a rational decision.

Curious_George_2

despite my feelings towards her i genuinely think shes off her rocker!
how can you be rational when you honestly think you can get up and walk around and you havent moved for years?
she got very upset with my mother for sending back the stairlift when she moved in, she honestly thought she might still use it yet

smileykylie_2

all you can do is document very clearly (without too much emotion is that is possible) everything you are concerned about and pass it onto the people who are working the closest with her, GP, social worker etc. If she is not actually putting herself at risk for example thinks she can walk when she can't then tries thereby falling over, the situation would be different but if her 'delusions' are not putting her at risk then it is less likely they are as an important factor as you would like them to be. Sorry but even horrible people have rights!!

Errata

If a family member - you or your mum - contacts the social worker or older peoples social work team and tells them gran's daughter is stealing substantial amounts of money from her and it's probably happening because gran isn't completely 'with it', they'll get start an immediate investigation and a thorough assessment of capacity will be part of it.

cazziebo

I work with two care companies, and carers know what they are doing. If they thought a service user was being assessed at the wrong level, they would be reporting back to the Social Work Dept. Care plans are not put together on the basis of a ticking exercise - the potential liability is too great for that - but by carefully considered processes. f you think they are wrong then ask for a reassessment.

If she is getting several visits per day then that's quite a high level of care - the next step sounds as if it would be 24 hour care. Care at home is the right of everyone except for the most exceptional of cases, and what you've described sounds more like a cantankerous, difficult woman than a need for specialised residential care.

MrsTinks

Errata wrote: »

Patient confidentiality will prevent the Trust having this sort of discussion with a relative.

No it will prevent them discussing any data or giving any oppinion to her relative - it will not stop them listening to the concerns of a relative and accepting any additional evidence from relatives should they decide that her abuse of the 999 system is affecting the care they are providing to other members of the public - sorry I probably should have made that clearer in my post earlier I'm well aware of the confidentiality issues - but if they have already recognised there is a problem they may welcome any additional information from her relatives.

MrsTinks

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

Well, her right to an ambulance, someone else's right to the same ambulance, and her rights to live in her own home are three seperates issues in a way, although they all impact on each other.

If she is becoming a nuisance to the paramedics they will have strategies in place to manage and deal with that, and that is their business really... they get a lot of these calls and do ask a lot of questions to judge the urgency of need of each caller.

Actually no they don't - they are as far as I am aware still fighting for the right to be allowed to prioritise calls made to the 999 number. Unless things have changed (and I can check that tomorrow with Beans god mother to be who works in dispatch) then if someone calls 999 the crew has to attend with blue lights and sirens if the caller says it's an emergency - even if they have made clear it's because they can't reach their drink... so long as they insist that it's an emergency it doesn't matter if the dispatcher OR the crew know that the caller can't reach her glass of ribena.... Blues and two's it is... how fast they go ofcourse might vary from a call where it's been stated there is a serious risk to life...)

Unforutnately it's not always easy to deal with people who are going dement (sp?) - especially if that person still has SOME capacity left mentally and are potentially highly intelligent and manipulative to boot...

I am, like everyone else judging purely on the oppinons of the OP here - because that's all I can judge on And OP no disrespect to you but you are obviously biased in this no matter how much you try not to be That's not a critisism - just an observation
But if your grandmother IS as bad as you state then I would start by contacting any social carer she may have and speak with yoru mother about steps you can both take to try and get her into care... So long as you have no financial or other personal gain motives then hopefully they will take you seriously

foreign_correspondent

gorgeous dogs! :-)

Actually no they don't - they are as far as I am aware still fighting for the right to be allowed to prioritise calls made to the 999 number. Unless things have changed (and I can check that tomorrow with Beans god mother to be who works in dispatch) then if someone calls 999 the crew has to attend with blue lights and sirens if the caller says it's an emergency - even if they have made clear it's because they can't reach their drink... so long as they insist that it's an emergency it doesn't matter if the dispatcher OR the crew know that the caller can't reach her glass of ribena.... Blues and two's it is... how fast they go ofcourse might vary from a call where it's been stated there is a serious risk to life...)

Perhaps it has changed since?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/mar/10/nhs.emergencyservices

OP, is your mum involved in her mother's review meetings? Does she feel that your grandmother has mental capacity or not?

purple12

Well, I have to say that if someone doesn't want to move - there is very little that can be done to force them. Sectioning is an absolute last resort and proof of significant harm to self or others has to be established which doesn't seem to be the case in this circumstance.

Careline is there to be called and many many people call the ambulance and the careline many times a day. It happens a lot with people with dementia - so it is not likely to phase the PCT/Ambulance trust overly as they will be used to it.

The Mental Capacity Act can be used to move someone if they do not have capacity but it has to be established that it is in their best interests to move and that is the individual's best interests rather than those of their family. Moving someone to respite has a similarly high barrier. It is (rightly) extremely difficult to move someone against their will and there has to be recourse to the law for these situations.

Certainly it's worth asking for another assessment though - and making sure that you or your mother speak to the doctor or social worker involved away from your grandmother.
Just for the record, I'm a social worker in a older people's mental health team. one of my many jobs is to (when necessary) sign section papers and also to make excessive use of the mental capacity act. I always try to speak to family members away from each other to try and get a better picture of how people are managing as well as the care workers who go in and do the job so it wouldn't ever really be a matter of just relying on what your grandmother says on a good day. That isn't what I would call a proper assessment.
It is though, as I said above, very difficult to force people to do things that they don't want to do.

Although from what you say, it doesn't sound like there's enough evidence to necessitate a mental health act assessment (to possibly section her) your grandmother's nearest relative (who may or may not be your mother) has the legal right to request one. That's not to say the result would be any different though.

krisskross

I get the feeling that you couldn't care less about the 'waste of resources' but are a rather spiteful individual. As you have 'disowned' her then just mind your own business.