advice re nans rights to live in own home

Savvy_Sue

The perceptive among you will see that we're now on Silver Savers. So let's try to stick to the point, although there may not be anything much to add now.

Farway

One option, which we had to adopt with my mother in the end, is to have her taken into hospital, it sounds like she should be there anyway. This would obviously need either GP or similar to arrange it

Once in hospital she should not be discharged until an assessment of her home conditions, self sufficiency etc has been completed by Social, and from OP it would seem she would fail this

Thus she would have to go into nursing care

However, here is the catch, GP, mental health and all Social workers are aware of this, and also aware of no money in Council's coffers to pay for it, so you could end up as we did, with her stuck in hospital bed blocking

In the end she died before a place became available

FairyElephant_2

MrsTine wrote: »

Unforutnately it's not always easy to deal with people who are going dement (sp?) - especially if that person still has SOME capacity left mentally and are potentially highly intelligent and manipulative to boot...

Too true MrsTine - sadly you have hit the nail on the head! We have exactly this problem with my Dad, who for several years has seemed to be able to appear quite rational and sensible when being assessed, and claimed to go out and do various things, and have lots of interests, which was all a fabric of lies! In the end, my Mum has had to keep a detailed diary of what he does, says, eats (or more likely doesn't eat) etc, etc, but it is very, very hard for carers to be taken seriously in this sort of situation, as all the assessors get to see is a 'snapshot' of the person.

OP - I feel for you. You have been very honest and I think it is wrong of people to come on and give you grief. We cannot like or get on with everyone, and just because someone is family, or is old, that does not make them a nice person and automatically deserving of our respect.
You are quite correct about the emergency-call situation. I would hope that a recond is kept of all her calls, so that those assessing her neesds can see how often she makes calls and what they are for...but sadly, from my own experiences, our health-services don't seem to be 'joined up' in this way.

Even though our situation is different as I would still love my dad to be the person he was, and have no reason to disown him from his previous life, TBH he is a different person now due to dementia, and not one who it is very easy to like.
He used to be smart, polite and articulate, but now he is dishonest, dirty, rude and very mean to my Mum who cares for him as best she can - and I really think the best thing for her would be for him to go into a home (she has been put on anti-depressants, but her depression is caused solely by him!), but as he is not judged as being 'ill' enough, we can't get him to even go for a few days so she can have respite break.
The last time I got her away for a few days, we had a carer come in for a couple of hours a day - they were supposed to make sure he took his meds and ate a meal. Well, he claimed to have already eaten every time, and showed the empty food wrappers, and to have taken his pills, but when we got home we found all the food and the pills in the dustbin outside! He also didn't change his clothes the whole time (not even underwear), even though he had burnt holes in his trousers (he is a smoker, and since his dementia worsened has smoked almost constantly - even though my Mum is asthmatic). He never leaves the house unless he has medical appointments, and wouldn't even go to them if my mum didn't arrange taxis and basically force him to go.
We still love him, for the person he was, but it is very difficult, as he just isn't that person any more.

Ah well, enough of my woes.

OP, in your position I agree with blue_monkey - think I would be trying to convince your mum to get the heck out of there ASAP!

Best wishes,

FE

margaretclare

Fiver29 wrote: »

I haven't read anything except the OP, because I was so incensed from that post I didn't dare read the rest. According to the OP his/her gran is suffering from dementia, but they haven't done anything about finding out how that dementia might affect someone....

.....or whether in fact it IS dementia!

Gran may well be 'off her rocker' and may have been a very difficult person all her life, but that's not necessarily the same as dementia, which needs properly diagnosing.

cool_pinkie

Farway wrote: »

One option, which we had to adopt with my mother in the end, is to have her taken into hospital, it sounds like she should be there anyway. This would obviously need either GP or similar to arrange it

Once in hospital she should not be discharged until an assessment of her home conditions, self sufficiency etc has been completed by Social, and from OP it would seem she would fail this

Thus she would have to go into nursing care

However, here is the catch, GP, mental health and all Social workers are aware of this, and also aware of no money in Council's coffers to pay for it, so you could end up as we did, with her stuck in hospital bed blocking

In the end she died before a place became available

Hmm i'm not sure on what reason they could be admitted to hospital. If the person has a care package in place the Social Services would be asked to re-start it in the first place as they don't want people as you say 'bed blocking'.

Also if the person is assessed by the professionals as not being safe to go home but they still want to then their choice has to be respected. Again it comes down to capacity and until the person loses that there is no legal way to force an adult to do anything even if you consider it is in their best interest.:rolleyes:

Curious_George_2

thank you all so much for all your advice, and for being nicer than that lot in the arms :rolleyes:
i will pass all this info onto my mum and see what can be done,
despite how it sounds i dont think people should be forced into homes as soon as they become incapable of looking after themselves, but i think that the time has come that she would be much better off in one and then of course the ambulance problem would be automatically solved.

fairy elephant - its good to hear someone knows exactly what ive been getting at! i dont understand how she can be in her own world for 99% of the day but becomes noel coward the second the assessors or the paramedics walk through the door!

Savvy_Sue

Curious_George wrote: »

despite how it sounds i dont think people should be forced into homes as soon as they become incapable of looking after themselves, but i think that the time has come that she would be much better off in one and then of course the ambulance problem would be automatically solved.

I have to say "not necessarily" to this. You may still get situations where someone insists that they are really poorly and need an ambulance, and the best protocols in the world won't weed out all of those, because unless there is a doctor in attendance they may have to call an ambulance.

Moreover, the home may want to call a relative to accompany the person to hospital, or wait with them there.

I think one of our regular contributors has found that when her dad falls in his nursing home, an ambulance is called and so is she. Her dad can't be left on his own, because of his confusion, and there aren't enough staff to allow one of them to wait with him while he's assessed.

Curious_George_2

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I have to say "not necessarily" to this. You may still get situations where someone insists that they are really poorly and need an ambulance, and the best protocols in the world won't weed out all of those, because unless there is a doctor in attendance they may have to call an ambulance.

oh i understand what your saying, but i suppose i meant it will stop an ambulance being called because shes alone and has slipped down in her chair with no one around to help, she wont for instance be calling them because the carers left her drink out of reach etc

if she actually needs an ambulance then fair enough, but all those annoying 'hoaxish' calls will stop

ukmaggie45

Dear Curious George, not got any advice, but just wanted to let you know that I feel for you and your Mum. Especially your Mum, who is having to live with this unreasonable person.

Both my parents died with dementia - my mother of dementia (first item on the death certificate). Dad got confused some of the time and was sometimes incontinent, but still stayed "himself" (a real gentleman) to the bitter end. Mum on the other hand turned really horrible and bitter, accused me and husband of stealing Dad's money (Husband had enduring power of attorney and so paid Dad's nursing home bills etc from Dad's bank account) and stealing her money too. Also accused our lovely daughter and her husband of taking drugs - as if! :mad: And was really nasty to our other daughter too.

She did reconcile with our daughters and my husband before she died , but I never had a kind word from her after she was in hospital after a fall (at home in their flat), and then discharged to a nursing home. Her death was truly awful - she was put on the Liverpool Care Path for the Dying, and nobody even bothered to tell us (or ask permission as next of kin) till the following day when husband and daughter visited. Took her 10 days to die. _pale_

She died just over 6 weeks after my Dad.

I am seeing a Counsellor now for Bereavement Counselling (been going for over a year, and suspect will be going for at least another year) which I am finding painful but very helpful. You have every right to not see your Gran, but I do wonder if you might find Counselling helpful just to get to grips with your feelings and find some happiness. I know it's none of my business - just wanted to let you know how helpful I am finding Counselling to be.

I wish your Mum (and you of course!) the best of luck with finding a solution to your conundrum.

Best wishes, Maggie

Curious_George_2

thanks maggie,
im sorry to read your story and am glad that therapy is helping you
but i really dont think i need any,
i dont think about her from one day to the next, she really is no part of my life, i only posted about her because i find it incredible that its SO obvious she needs more help but because she sits there (no doubt in a puddle of something disgusting) with food down her for hours on end and says 'i dont want too' that nothing can be done
she would be so much better off, well cared for and actually have all the things she moans about the lack of... and yet she cant be moved for her own good,

thanks for thinking of me, but im perfectly happy, i have my own wonderful little branch of the family with OH and the kids and we have big plans for the future (hopefully that involve moving away from any blood relatives! that would make my life so much easier! lol)