Utility Warehouse. Why did I switch?

Mike_by_the_Sea

Cardew wrote: »

So come on, is that incorrect or is it not – UW reps are welcome to comment on facts!

Instead we will have the usual emotive bleating by UW reps that Quentin or Cardew ‘hate’ UW.

Hi Cardew

Bleat Bleat

I'm not one to get picky about comparisons, but I will try and add a few observations to your comparison post.

1. How many of the cheapest prices tie you in to a contract with penalties if you change supplier? (Between £50 and £100 for 12 months or 24 months)

2. How many calculate the overall annual price. (Only if you stay with them for a minimum of 12 months with discounts between £40 and £105)

3. The lowest UW price, for comparison, would be £920. (including membership)

Cardew

Mike_by_the_Sea wrote: »

Hi Cardew

Bleat Bleat

I'm not one to get picky about comparisons, but I will try and add a few observations to your comparison post.

1. How many of the cheapest prices tie you in to a contract with penalties if you change supplier? (Between £50 and £100 for 12 months or 24 months)

2. How many calculate the overall annual price. (Only if you stay with them for a minimum of 12 months with discounts between £40 and £105)

3. The lowest UW price, for comparison, would be £920. (including membership)

The calculation of annual price was direct from the two comparison websites.

It would be far too time consuming to go through all of the thirty or forty tariffs that are cheaper than UW to see if there what(if any) tie in clauses they might have. However with potential savings of up to £174pa(on a well below average consumption consumption) it is not a big factor - and of course the majority of the tariffs will not have a penalty.

NigeWick

Cardew wrote: »

The calculation of annual price was direct from the two comparison websites.

As people keep saying, this site is about saving money. *I* save money by being a UW customer and using the pre payment card. This includes paying the monthly fees for UW club membership and card. My saving is against "cheapest buys" posted here. Therefore at least some customers who are prepared to shop regularly at the stores currently attached to the card can end up paying the least for their utility bills. The comparison sites can give an indication of how much one must spend on the card to make it a viable proposition. But, the fact remains that at least some customers will benefit by taking services from UW.

I am a Distributor for Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus)

Mike_by_the_Sea

Cardew wrote: »

The calculation of annual price was direct from the two comparison websites.

It would be far too time consuming to go through all of the thirty or forty tariffs that are cheaper than UW to see if there what(if any) tie in clauses they might have. However with potential savings of up to £174pa(on a well below average consumption consumption) it is not a big factor - and of course the majority of the tariffs will not have a penalty.

Being a sad person, I have looked at the 30 or 40 tariffs and there are 14 with tariffs that have a penalty ranging from £30 to £100 and with minimum contract terms from 9 months to 24 months. All but 3 have annualised discounts that would tie you in for 12 months. Of those 3, one has a minimum term of 9 months and the other two are online paperless billings.

In summary, if you are looking for the cheapest price with total flexibility to change supplier, your options come down very quickly to a handful of suppliers / deals. In this example, there are 15 in total out of 65 with costs ranging from £907 to £1097.

Quentin

Misleading.

"annualised discounts" doesn't mean you are tied in for 12 months.

The majority pay the discount pro rate on each bill.

Of course the most cynical of the "annual" discount payers were uw (who have now stopped paying out any annual discount to new customers).

They paid you a discount for taking extra services, but you had to wait a year to get it, then they clawed it back if you left them within 3 months of getting it!

Cardew

Mike_by_the_Sea wrote: »

Being a sad person, I have looked at the 30 or 40 tariffs and there are 14 with tariffs that have a penalty ranging from £30 to £100 and with minimum contract terms from 9 months to 24 months. All but 3 have annualised discounts that would tie you in for 12 months. Of those 3, one has a minimum term of 9 months and the other two are online paperless billings.

In summary, if you are looking for the cheapest price with total flexibility to change supplier, your options come down very quickly to a handful of suppliers / deals. In this example, there are 15 in total out of 65 with costs ranging from £907 to £1097.

Mike,
Not a very good defence of UW if I may say so - clutching at straws?

Are you getting confusing by an annual loyalty bonus? similar to that I believe NPower offer on some tariffs?

As pointed out above, the vast majority give Direct Debit/Dual fuel discounts on a pro-rata basis. i.e. if you are with the company for, say, 3 months you get the discounts in full.

Considering that most people will save £hundreds pa by going to the cheapest tariff instead of UW, why would a modest cancellation fee deter them?

Take BG websaver for instance that comes out as cheapest for many people. There is a £30 per fuel cancellation fee* if you leave before 30 Sept 2009.

Now considering BG and all other internet accounts have always been massively cheaper than UW, why on earth would you think that people would want to leave their tariff to join UW simply because you don't have a cancellation fee? You will save the £30 in weeks.

Whichever way you look at it it is an inescapable fact that UW are one of the most expensive suppliers of gas and electricity in UK.

* I suspect the £30 cancellation fee is purely to deter those 'serial switchers' who switch as soon as they can purely to get the cashback/free champagne etc.

BG should be applauded for this stance as not only has it closed the loophole of switching for cashback(for which we all pay indirectly in higher charges) but will deter the comparison websites from persuading people to switch(often to a more expensive tariff) simply the maximise the website's commission.

Mike_by_the_Sea

Cardew wrote: »

Mike,
Not a very good defence of UW if I may say so - clutching at straws?

Are you getting confusing by an annual loyalty bonus? similar to that I believe NPower offer on some tariffs?

As pointed out above, the vast majority give Direct Debit/Dual fuel discounts on a pro-rata basis. i.e. if you are with the company for, say, 3 months you get the discounts in full.

Considering that most people will save £hundreds pa by going to the cheapest tariff instead of UW, why would a modest cancellation fee deter them?

Take BG websaver for instance that comes out as cheapest for many people. There is a £30 per fuel cancellation fee* if you leave before 30 Sept 2009.

Now considering BG and all other internet accounts have always been massively cheaper than UW, why on earth would you think that people would want to leave their tariff to join UW simply because you don't have a cancellation fee? You will save the £30 in weeks.

Whichever way you look at it it is an inescapable fact that UW are one of the most expensive suppliers of gas and electricity in UK.

* I suspect the £30 cancellation fee is purely to deter those 'serial switchers' who switch as soon as they can purely to get the cashback/free champagne etc.

BG should be applauded for this stance as not only has it closed the loophole of switching for cashback(for which we all pay indirectly in higher charges) but will deter the comparison websites from persuading people to switch(often to a more expensive tariff) simply the maximise the website's commission.

Hi Cardew (and Quentin)

Fair cop on the annualised assumptions. I had a closer look at the details behind the figures and as you say, most pay the discounts monthly or quarterly.

I wasn't making a pitch for UW, but highlighting the small print behind some of the headline figures with regard to minimum contracts, fixed prices, penalties, loyalty payments, duplication and the like.....

- 25 of the 57 in the comparison have minimum contracts and penalties
- 5 have fixed prices for the next 12 months (during which hopefully prices might come down )
- 8 have loyalty payments after 12 months
- some tariffs may not be available (EDF Online 6?)
- 16 are online only
- 14 are Scottish Power, 10 are EON, 8 are Southern Electric

and, if I were to be looking for a provider with no minimum contract, offline, not fixed and taking out duplications, there would only be 18 left and that would put UW into the top 5 and the best saving would be £31 (3%).

I agree with your BG comment regarding serial switchers and the associated indirect costs, the trend is likely to go that way.

Cardew

Mike_by_the_Sea wrote: »

Hi Cardew (and Quentin)

Fair cop on the annualised assumptions. I had a closer look at the details behind the figures and as you say, most pay the discounts monthly or quarterly.

I wasn't making a pitch for UW, but highlighting the small print behind some of the headline figures with regard to minimum contracts, fixed prices, penalties, loyalty payments, duplication and the like.....

- 25 of the 57 in the comparison have minimum contracts and penalties
- 5 have fixed prices for the next 12 months (during which hopefully prices might come down )
- 8 have loyalty payments after 12 months
- some tariffs may not be available (EDF Online 6?)
- 16 are online only
- 14 are Scottish Power, 10 are EON, 8 are Southern Electric

and, if I were to be looking for a provider with no minimum contract, offline, not fixed and taking out duplications, there would only be 18 left and that would put UW into the top 5 and the best saving would be £31 (3%).

I agree with your BG comment regarding serial switchers and the associated indirect costs, the trend is likely to go that way.

Mike,

You really are making our case about UW.

For UW to be in the top 5:

You must ignore on-line accounts that can save £hundreds.

Ignore any account that has a cancellation fee - even though these are typically £20 -£30.

Indeed why would you cancel these accounts? UW has always been more expensive than the vast majority of tariffs available from all other suppliers, and there is every likelyhood that they will remain more expensive.

NigeWick

Cardew wrote: »

Whichever way you look at it it is an inescapable fact that UW are one of the most expensive suppliers of gas and electricity in UK.

Brilliant eh!? The shareholders are happy because they get a dividend and good share prices. The management are happy because they have cash for future projects or expansion. People working for the company are happy to keep their jobs. Independent distributors are happy to get paid regularly. Several stores are happy to know they will keep/gain some loyal customers. And, customers are happy that they can take advantage of the pre payment card and still end up paying less for their utilities than with the cheapest suppliers quoted here. This is known as a win/win situation.

I am a Distributor for Utility Warehouse

Cardew

Nigewick,

You were stating that UW were cheaper, long before the store card came out.

Now it seems that all UW reps are pinning their arguments on an extremely questionable card.

Certainly it is win/win for UW shareholders, management and reps - with the very high prices they charge it is not surprising!

There is no doubt that it is a successful model they enterprise they have come up with. However it all depends on reps selling an overpriced product, to unsuspecting and trusting friends and family and cold calling on a naive public.

I think we should just leave it re-stating:

Whichever way you look at it it is an inescapable fact that UW are one of the most expensive suppliers of gas and electricity in UK.