Cashback/Cheque back -Who to trust & avoid?

Steve_xx

thor wrote: »

I completely agree with you but I can't be bothered to argue with them about about them changing 45 to 60 days(although I have mentioned it to them in my initial email complaints) when they are breaching the contract for 60 days anyway. They have been messing me about for my last 6 cashback claims but by complaining on each occasion I have managed to get all them paid eventually. I have only got two more to go and then I'll be done with them. That is unless I can see proof that they are not at risk of going bankrupt and pay my claims bang on their newly revised period of 60 days. On 2nd thoughts after seeing what their offers are now like I don't think I'll bother even then!

I'm wondering about all of this. It ocurred to me that since you have had all of this hassle on each claiming occasion, and they are clearly in breach of their terms. whether there might be a simpler remedy?

Since they are in breach I would think it reasonable for you to claim all of the forward payments due at the point that they breached the contract? We need a legal person to come on here and offer some advice about this type of thing. I know that some of these companies specify that if you miss one claim, then you forfeit the remaining claims. So then, why can it not be that when they breach the terms that you should be able to demand the remainder?

digity_sados

thor wrote: »

I completely agree with you but I can't be bothered to argue with them about about them changing 45 to 60 days(although I have mentioned it to them in my initial email complaints) when they are breaching the contract for 60 days anyway. They have been messing me about for my last 6 cashback claims but by complaining on each occasion I have managed to get all them paid eventually. I have only got two more to go and then I'll be done with them. That is unless I can see proof that they are not at risk of going bankrupt and pay my claims bang on their newly revised period of 60 days. On 2nd thoughts after seeing what their offers are now like I don't think I'll bother even then!

this is to all cashback threads, i work at one of the phone companys in cs ,and what you find is weather you belive me are not is 1st thing we dont you didnt get your
claim so untill you ring in we have know idea this,most of the time the cheques get sent out and get lost in the post,and belive me this happens on a major scale,then we have to cancel this cheque but first with checking not been cashed as people do try it on,this can take up tor 30 days then abother 14 to28 working days to get to you,why it takes so long im not sure,but you have to see that theres not just one cheque theres thousands,and when its apart of cpw your talking a major amount of customer and these things take time,we cant just send money on the wim of what people say, as for not sending correct claims e2save and one stop work the same cashback way which differs from cpw,we go from month of purchase which in leaflets before nov has a calender to follow so if you dont get it right you have not used this and there for cant moan you didnt get your cashback ,read and askof your not sure

Steve_xx

digity_sados wrote: »

this is to all cashback threads, i work at one of the phone companys in cs ,and what you find is weather you belive me are not is 1st thing we dont you didnt get your
claim so untill you ring in we have know idea this,most of the time the cheques get sent out and get lost in the post,and belive me this happens on a major scale,then we have to cancel this cheque but first with checking not been cashed as people do try it on,this can take up tor 30 days then abother 14 to28 working days to get to you,why it takes so long im not sure,but you have to see that theres not just one cheque theres thousands,and when its apart of cpw your talking a major amount of customer and these things take time,we cant just send money on the wim of what people say, as for not sending correct claims e2save and one stop work the same cashback way which differs from cpw,we go from month of purchase which in leaflets before nov has a calender to follow so if you dont get it right you have not used this and there for cant moan you didnt get your cashback ,read and askof your not sure

Regardless of whether the companies concerned process hundreds or thousands of claims, is of no relevance to those customers who have duly sent their claims in the prescribed manner and who have been fobbed off, ignored and treated absolutely shoddily by the appalling customer services staff.

The real problem here is that these companies are scheming in order to avoid making payments to customers. When these schemes first appeared it was much simpler to reclaim the cashbacks. Nowadays, claiming cashback is fraught with difficulty. I wonder why this has come about? Why change a scheme that was simple for your customers to one that is nigh on impossible to achieve?

It seems to me that companies are regularly breaching the terms of the contracts by their failure to pay out on time. They are flagrantly flouting the law and this cannot be right.

Eventually, the appropriate regulatory authority will step in to put an end to this miserable carry on. The sooner, the better.

mobilejunkie

A pity, but true! When they work and companies are honest it's great. Unfortuantely now even E2Save has caught the serious dishonesty bug.

E2Save and Onetopphoneshop do NOT operate the same cashback terms and the months are NOT counted the same. I correct myself; they didn't until they stole a competitor's t&c in the pretence of price-matching but with the purpose of confusing the hell out of its customers and relying on its past (much better and with good reason) reputation to pull in more business whilst ensuring a lower percent manage to get the cashbacks.

Lynsey

Another quick update. :rotfl:

TS have today contacted me and I explained the changes in T&C's etc. (around mid June I believe??) and how I was told that the changes would also apply to my January contract.
I have supplied them the original T&C's as printed on 20/01/07 as requested and now they are loking into the case. I have been told that they will liaise with Nottingham TS and if necessary (if what they have done is illegal), then they will look at a prosecution. Hopefully I will find out shortly whether they have acted wrongly and then I can push for my claim under the original T&C's.
Apparently companies can change T&C's, ie; banks etc, but that is with a "rolling contract" and not a "fixed" contract, which hopefully this is (12 months). Any changes of course should be sent to the customer.
As pointed out by Steve_xx, there is also the Unfair Terms act, which obviously will be looked at.
Because CNM are a "paperless" company :rolleyes: , I have emailed them asking for clarification regarding applying the new T&C's to my contract, we shall wait and see if I get a reply. I will post it, if and when.
I also asked TS about the situation whereas they claim a missing page of an invoice was not recieved, even though the customer is adamant that is was sent. TS replied this was a dodgy area and would be hard to prove, although if this is a regular problem then complaints should be sent to TS and then if enough complaints are received, this could be looked into. I was also advised to number the pages which I send and either photocopy/scan/photo what is sent. This is just in case they are an unscrupulous company , and are genuinely "screwing" customers.
SO IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE BEEN DONE BY COOLNEWMOBILE - CONTACT YOUR TRADING STANDARDS

Off now to get a life


Lynsey

Steve_xx

Excellent news.

Let us know how this progresses. I hope more people refer these companies to Trading Standards. TS may well already have a dossier of complaints relating to CNM and your reference will serve to weight that dossier and ultimately TS will act on this issue of cashback scams.

It would be most helpful if a legal person joined the discussion and gave some advice that we could all follow. But so far I think this is progressing in the right direction. It needs an airing on national TV - Watchdog or some other consumer style program like Working Lunch would be a suitable vehicle.

Lynsey

Another very quick update. :rotfl: :rotfl:

I have just received an email reply from CNM.

My initial request was;

Thanks for your reply. The original terms of my
contract stated payment would be paid to my home
address by cheque in around 28 days. I have contacted
you by phone and was told by Kelly that the terms and
conditions have changed and that the new terms would
apply to my contract as well. Surely my contract is
governed by the terms as at the commencement of my
contract around the 20th/21st January 2007 which I
have saved and printed. Please advise accordingly.


The reply;

Thank you for your email. We can confirm that we have amended the time
to
process a claim to around 45 working days and have also amended the
terms
and conditions as we are an internet based company we do reserve the
right
to amend our terms as we state in our terms and conditions, in this
case
the 45 working days does apply to all customer.

Regards
Claims Support
Mobile Affiliates Limited


The email has been forwarded to TS as proof. Previously, I only had word of mouth.


Lynsey

thor

Steve_xx wrote: »

I'm wondering about all of this. It ocurred to me that since you have had all of this hassle on each claiming occasion, and they are clearly in breach of their terms. whether there might be a simpler remedy?

Since they are in breach I would think it reasonable for you to claim all of the forward payments due at the point that they breached the contract?

I have held off taking it further than just complaining by email because I have got all my cashbacks paid so far. The lateness of the payments is the main problem as it leads me into thinking that they are in financial difficulties but as long as they keep paying I will delay taking legal action.

JasonLVC

Send them a letter giving them 7 days to pay or that you'll take them for breach of contract. On 7th day, go online and submit an electronic application to the small claims court £30ish), asking for full and final payment of all outstanding monies, plus a bit more for administration/time. These firms only respond to aggresive attention. TS and the like are next to useless, in my experience. Good old fashioned tghreats work wonders.

All these mobile outlets are still making money on cashback schemes as they recevie a commission for each 'connection' of upto £300 and so if they refund you £250 over 12 months they've still made money, especially if some clients forget to claim in a certain month, etc. They also get a bigger bonus for selling a set number of contracts per month (and they get to keep all of that amount). There are no loss leaders in contract mobile phones per se.

Many networks are moving into selling their own phones direct (like Three's £15 for life offer) to boost client numbers and to save having to pay out those £300 commissions to CPW and the like. CPW in particular have had a bad year, with their broadband offering getting negatove attention and costing £10m more to upgrade than first thought - this squeezes profits and so subsidiaries like E2S and OSPS can get a bit sloppy with their clients. I emailed C Dunstone and gave him 48hrs to sort my E2S cashback and it was. The industry has also recently lost a VAT case whereby they thought they could retain the VAT on cashbacks but have lost in Europe so have to pay that over to the government, hurting their profit lines yet more. On top of that, another VAT case saw the networks (o2, Orange, 3) lose in Europe on recovering the VAT on the 3G licenses (some £3billion) and so now the big boys have to plug that gap or see a drop in profits (and therefore shareholder bonuses).

I think in the current climate, a cashback phone deal is to be considered medium to high risk. Sign up for the phone and the minutes, not the promise of a cashback. It's just not worth the hassle anymore.

greenoak

I agree.

The days of totally free line rentals AND payouts are gone.

I am looking at the rebate deals with dial a phone and hope they payout. But the numbers are much smaller now. It is half price line rental deals now. But with a good quidco rebate as well I am looking at £50 for a years connection.