vicious dog

Notsosharp

I do agree that there are "bad dogs", I know a lot of people say that there is no such thing as a bad dog just bad owners and whilst this may be true in the majority of cases there are cases where there is just a "bad dog".

My Mum had one, it was an alsation and we had it from a puppy, now my Mum is very experienced with dogs and has won competitions with both her springer and her other alsation but this alsation was just wrong from the start. She was fine with family members (which this dog next door to you may be) but she would go completely mental when approached by other people and even when not approached she would go into attack mode. I can't explain it but you would see it in her eyes, she would completely change. She took her to the vets for something, the vet took one look and told her he was putting the dog on the dangerous dog register and if anything happened he would have no hesitation in putting her to sleep, in the end thats what happened the dog just got completely uncontrollable.

This dog sounds very, very dangerous and the fact your neighbours let it into the garden when they KNOW its dangerous and you have a young child is just irresponsible in the extreme. I completely understand you not wanting to go anywhere near the dog. IMO they should have the dog taken off them because its not fair on you and in the long run its not fair on the dog either. They need to accept that they cannot keep a former guard dog in a domestic setting and that sooner or later (God forbid) something is going to happen. Your neighbours need to be responsible and accept they need to let the dog go somewhere it can do what it was trained to do. I think it would be a lot happier and so would you.

Mimi_Arc_en_ciel

CFC wrote: »

dont worry about the neighbours claiming you are winding the dog up. The fact that there is evidence of ie being permitted in your garden will counter that.

Will do but i think they will try the "shes tormenting it" approach to clear their name. Will seak to a few people who have stopped us in the street and see if they will write a statement for me re the window and will take pictures when its on the back

CFC wrote: »

'does it really matter providing it's only a few people who get killed' mentality.

OMG!!!!!!! the people who believe this should try walking up my garden path or using our back door at night!

Notsosharp wrote: »

I do agree that there are "bad dogs", I know a lot of people say that there is no such thing as a bad dog just bad owners and whilst this may be true in the majority of cases there are cases where there is just a "bad dog".

I dont think it is the dog though but that's mainly because the way the neighbours reacted when i asked if there was anything they could do about it. I know animals can sometimes turn and ive seen it happen (mostly with horses when breaking them in tho!) but he seems a good guard dog (scares cr** outta me! isn't that what they are there for?) but hes gone from a pub to a 2 bed house and i dont think the neighbours see him as being a threat / problem. They told me he wouldnt get out the window but i wouldnt want to be in the garden with no escape route if he did. Dads put a shovel next to back door and theres a baseball bat qat the front door (i think he intended on me using this if neighbours hubby came round but its goodn knowing its there if the dog ever gets out) i should add im totally against animal cruelty and would only ever hit the dog if i felt threatened and couldnt get away but for me to get the bat i'd have to come inside so i'd be able to close the door unless it had hold of my leg! I'll feel awful if they put him down, my mum had her dog put down last year, she had lumps on her belly, they operated on them but they came back so the vet suggested they put Obi down and i refused to talk to my mum for 2 weeks. Health visitor had to sit with me the day Obi got put down in case i went into early labour! i know their son is close to the dog and i dont want to be the one who pushes this and it breaks his heart . . but neither do i want to be the one who has to rush DD to hopstial when shes had her ligaments torn off.

foreign_correspondent

well, as the OP has contacted the police and rspca, all she can reasonably do now is let them talk to the neighbours and assess the dog (which may or may not be dangerous) and act accordingly.

It seems to me that the problem could potentially be solved as simply as the dogs owners making good the fnece and keeping the dog out of the room facing onto the path where it jumps at the window and barks.

Poisoning, or otherwise injuring the dog would ultimately antagonise the neighbours who may then retaliate in equally malicious ways.

When the owners say it is a guard dog, they may mean it is a trained working guard dog, or that it is just a dog who barks a lot which they do not discourage as they see it as reasonable in guarding their property. Some people will claim their dog is a guard dog as they think that spreading that image will ward off potential intruders!

Also - lots of dogs will jump up at windows and bark, this is not necessarily an indicator of aggression, although it is very hard to tell, which is why a proper assesment is needed.

Good luck to the OP, I think its really a case of wait and see now - did the police say when they would be coming round to see you -not too long I hope?

Mimi_Arc_en_ciel

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

When the owners say it is a guard dog, they may mean it is a trained working guard dog, or that it is just a dog who barks a lot
Good luck to the OP, I think its really a case of wait and see now - did the police say when they would be coming round to see you -not too long I hope?

its a proper guard dog - owners and people in village who know the owners have told me this. I could cope if it was just one of these yappy barking dogs but this one thinks my house is his property so if he does get near me, im pinned.

They never said - calling them tomorrow to chase up.

MrsTinks

Putting down poison or things intentially with the purpose of poisoning an animal would leave you on very shaky legal ground - BTW OP this isn't directed at you You've already made clear that you have no intention of wanting to harm this animal!
Anyway I'm not going to go on about that because I will get VERY angry and it's already late
So... the police potentially shooting the dog... if the owner is home and the "visits" to your garden are brief then obviously this isn't practical as a course of action anyhow I would get pictures of the animal in your garden - dated ones - and contact the local beat officer with them and explain that this is a dangerous dog and it's not being kept under control. Before looking at legal avenues I would pester the living daylights out of them and if you can get pictured of the snarling at the window to add to the evidence (as well as other peoples statements!) then all the better. Ideally you want them to put stipulations on the control of the animal so that if they fail to do so there will be legal implications including fines etc.

As for rotties... ROTTIES ARE NOT DANGEROUS and this animal is not dangerous because it is part rottie! This DOG is dangerous. In every breed you will find animals with a mental defect - and due to the rotties size they are often owned by people who choose to train them to be aggressive. The dog is not aggressive because it's chooses to be or because it was born a rottweiler. The comments about "oh it's ok so long as it's only a few they kill" is taken very out of context of that thread and i know because not only have I read it I think you might even be refering to something I wrote! So... the point is that YES people have been killed by Rottweilers, BUT most cases have been cases of careless owners rather than "evil killer dogs". I recall the incident with the toddler beign killed by the 2 pub guard dogs very well - and again WHY was a baby left alone with 2 TRAINED guarddogs? I wouldn't leave a 6 year old on their own in the room with my daft as a brush GSD/BC let alone a baby! And certainly not with 2 trained attack dogs!
As for the "it's only a few" comment - the whole argument was relating to wanting to ban rotties etc I believe and other comments saying only chavs had them and so all of them were obtained because they wanted them to be tough and several people pointed out that they had rotties and were certainly not chavs and I said I would have a rottie ANY day because I know several and my DH was brought up with them as his aunt bred them and yes if not trained to guard or attack they ARE soft as a squidgy sponge... that does NOT mean it's safe to leave a small child with them... (or any other dog for that matter). And we pointed out that some statistics about dangerous dogs & attacks by breed were wildly inaccurate and if they wanted to go through statistics then try comparing them with the most dangerous animal around - humans! It IS a very small number of people attacked by rotties or even dogs in general every year (infact I think to get half decent numbers you needed to look at 25 years worth of statistics...) so to say on that basis that all rotties were nasty and evil and killer was somewhat over reacting.

I have always supported the saying and always will:

Punish the deed, NOT the breed!

(and my personal preference would be to publicly flog dog owners who fail to keep their dogs under control! bet more people would keep their dogs on leashes or in secure gardens if they were facing 20 lashes in the town square! )

orlao

Mommyme

Doesn't matter what breed of dog it is......if it's in your back yard, it shouldn't be there, simple as that and I get the the impression that you and your neighbour live in HA houses? I would hassle the hell out of the HA and council if that is the case....surely the HA would be responsible for the fence if that's the case so if they would replace the fence at least your back yard would be secure. If that isn't correct then apologies, but I'm sure that the council can force homeowners to behave in a responsible manner and the threat of prosecution could make them replace the fence.

I don't know what you can do about the dog at the window, but if it's any consolation even if he dog came through the window it would be cut to shreds which would hopefully give you time to get indoors. Not ideal I agree but maybe some peace of mind?

CFC gave you some really useful stuff to quote to the council and your landlord, you could also try talking to your MP as they can also help to get the authorities moving. Another option is your local paper as they often like stories like that....again can get the council/HA moving!

Not going to get into the "are Rottweilers vicious or not" only because this ain't the thread.....but well said Mrs Tine;)

sammy_kaye18

MrsTine wrote: »

In every breed you will find animals with a mental defect - and due to the rotties size they are often owned by people who choose to train them to be aggressive.

Well said Mrs Tine. Although every rottweiler/staff in south Wales near me (not everywhere though) seems to belong to some chavvy little nit wit who thinks he's tough as nails because he has a mean looking dog so usually the dog is not trained, is not disciplined and has pack leader mentality and they think its funny to watch their dog show dominance over whatever and whoever it comes across.

I have never left my son in a room with my dog unattended - I learnt that mistake the hard way when we had our 18 month old, 7st rescue bassett hound Dylan, we had him one week and I left the room to collect the mail, Ben was 18 months fast asleep on the sofa (with a pillow barrier to prevent him falling off i might add! I am not that careless) but having never had a dog before i presumed that 3 seconds out of the room he'd be fine as the dog was asleep on the floor. I came back just in time to watch the dog lay ON TOP of my son - screaming was not the word - and the bloody dog wouldnt budge - how i moved him i have no idea but thankfully I did and I have never left my son alone with a dog since. We had to return Dylan shortly after as he viciously went for my boyfriend - who had been with him since day one of getting him (as had ben too) but the dog was attached to me and so we had to send him back.

CFC

MrsTine wrote: »

As for rotties... ROTTIES ARE NOT DANGEROUS

Yes, you were one of the ladies who believe it's fine if only a few people get killed, I remember now. In fact I think those were pretty much your exact words.

I didn't pursue the argument further because people who believe it's alright providing only a few people get killed are not worth discussing the issue with. They are clearly not rational on the subject.

You were one of the posters who poo pooed the 15 year statistics that have been collated by researchers. These stats certainly weren't collated by me.

Go and argue it out with the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention, who do collate stats (so unlike our own dear government!) and give them your guff about them being soppy family pets. Here you go, here's the link. You'll notice that Rottweilers are only second in fatalities next to Pit Bulls.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm

http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs.htm

I'm sorry, but to post

'BUT most cases have been cases of careless owners rather than "evil killer dogs".

as if that somehow justifies keeping these animals around rather than owning a safer breed makes me feel physically sick. I don't understand how you don't see the horror in those words. So it's ok providing it's not YOUR dog doing the killing? So its ok providing it's not YOUR child, either teeny or adult killed, then?

What do you say at the funeral?

"Oh what a shame your child was killed, but usually it's because that breed of dog has a poor owner, so it's worth anyone who wants a Rottweiler having one and breeding them for sale as pets. Of course, me and my friends have special dogs, or we're just top class owners. No worries there then."

Fine.

We disagree because I believe that ONE unnecessary fatality by a dog which is only kept in effect to massage someone's ego is ONE too many. EVERY other breed of dog except Pit bull is safer. You clearly believe that providing it's only a few there's no problem.

There will never be a common ground.

Blackpool_Saver

OK, this is what I would do, find the money from somewhere, anywhere and get that fence up, sell something, get a loan whatever it takes.

Involve the police and your local councillor, never let your child out of your sight, get past the window very quickly and into your car.

Move ASAP.

MrsTinks

CFC wrote: »

Yes, you were one of the ladies who believe it's fine if only a few people get killed, I remember now. In fact I think those were pretty much your exact words.

I think you'll find that they weren't actually but you feel free to misquote me if you like

As for what I would say at a funeral? I'd offer my deepest condolances and say I hope the person responcible for not controlling the dog regardless of breed is facing severe punishment. And if so decided by a court that the dog in question is destroyed humanely. What I would NOT say is "well what do you expect it's a Rottie...."

And yes I poo pooed the statistics and I still do. Live with it

You obviously dislike Rottweilers and that is your right, I don't and that is MY right. I base my views on my personal experience and information I have either collected or come across in my life and times working with rescues, because that is all I CAN base it on. But I don't start getting personal or insulting because you think something different to me nor do I dismiss you or your right to think otherwise.

I will defend the right to own a rottweiler to the limits of my ability - or any other breed of dog - should anyone try to outlaw it. And until then I will fight against people who are irresponsible dog owners of ANY breed. I can't abide irresponsible dog owners and if there is ONE gap in the law in this country it is the punishment of such people in my view.

Is the death of ANY person ever acceptable? No. But is it right to base the destruction of a breed on highly inaccurate numbers from statistics or make sweeping generalisations about the breeds stability based on a few very publicesed (sp?) attacks and deaths? No.
If anything then these attacks should be concentrating on the real problem which is the owners. Are the individual dogs in these cases dangerous? I haven't met them but I would hazard a guess that they are. Should they therefor be destroyed? Yes.
Do I think that because a higher proportion of serial killers and killers in general are men we should ban all men and put them to sleep? Tempting... but no. Do I think because most wars are started by religion we should ban religion? Again tempting but no.

Punish the deed.