Suitable punishments for a 6 year old. Ideas please!! Anything considered!

Desperate_Housewife_2-2

Hi blue_monkey, sorry to hear that you are having probs with your daughter. If its any consolation all parents go through this so you are not alone.

My tips are as follows...

-firstly she is probably tired from school, its a busy time and she may be copying behaviour from other kids in her class, have a word with her teacher to check everything is ok at school.

- when the hols start, ensure she gets to bed early and gets plenty of sleep, let her sleep in for a couple of days if she wants to, get plenty of good wholesome food down her, keep things quiet, not too many distractions or e numbers!

- play down xmas and keep things low key, they get hyper at this time of year so keep it low key, no mention of santa etc...

-try and spend a bit of time with her and just you if you can, make sure she knows you love her and have a little cuddle and a story at bedtime with some special time for just you too...make it a treat!

- remember, she loves you and you are doing a great job, they do get trying at times but I reckon she will be different again when the hols start and she has had a break from peer pressure.

Good luck and have a super xmas!

foreign_correspondent

why is the title "how to punish" rather than "how to get to her to behave", which I assume is your ultimate outcome?

I have to say recognising and rewarding good behaviour is generally more effective - it sounds like she gets a lot of attention when she is naughty - does she get as much when she is good? We tend notice more and to shout at kids and punish them when they do wrong, however, how often do we praise the when they do something nicely, play with their sibling well, or just behave as we would like them to.

Specifically paying attention to these incidents, (and looking for them too - 'catch them doing good') can be very powerful - find something to praise - even if its just 'it was really kind and grown up when you let x play with your toy' or 'it was brilliant that you didnt get cross at brother when he was being a pain", or encouragement, such as "I am really proud of you when you are kind to your brother" (even if she generally isnt.

This helps her to understand how she can gain positive attention.

blue_monkey_2

Hiya,

I was just catching up on DH so I'll answer all I can.

Yes, we do have 1:1 time, each evening and also at the weekend when we go swimming as DS does not like the water. Although my son has AS he is obsessed with marble runs and so that usually keeps him occupied. It is not about attention it is just the cheek and the fact she will not do anything she is asked either. This morning she lost the remote control so the kids cannot listen to the Nativity CD - and she has to learn this by the weekend, there is nowhere else to play it. Could you go look for it. No, you do it. I cannot do it as I do not know where it is, you had it last. So she went upstairs emptied her dressing up box out. I cannot find it. Then you need to look as you had it last (at this point I had also looked through the toy boxes while she refused to put her dressing up stuff away) and it should not be taken from the room. No. Then she ripped the tinsel off the stairs and I asked her - nicely - if she would tidy it up. No. Followed by - at 7.15 am, a whole load of screaming at the top of her voice. If she did not stop screaming and tidy it up she would have to go to her room. No. So she was put in her room and because she refused to look or tidy she stayed there until 8.20.

It is not about attention just more that she is so bloody obstinate, all I want to do is have a suitable punishment that works of kids of this age and she is inbetween. I've tried sticker charts - they get ripped off the wall. Also then if they get stickers in magazines or the like then the stickers you give tem for being good are no longer a reward. I've tried the money - the health worker said it was no good (although it worked for us!).

Apparently she hates me and I should die. So I just ignore her. I really feel like she does need a great big slap on the backside to stop her being so damn rude. It worked for me. However, I am trying to be good mum and not resort to that. But she is pushing her luck. Can I strip her naked and get her to run around the garden with her hands behind her head a la Bootcamp......? Or is that a no too?? :rotfl:

blue_monkey_2

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

why is the title "how to punish" rather than "how to get to her to behave", which I assume is your ultimate outcome?

I have to say recognising and rewarding good behaviour is generally more effective - it sounds like she gets a lot of attention when she is naughty - does she get as much when she is good? We tend notice more and to shout at kids and punish them when they do wrong, however, how often do we praise the when they do something nicely, play with their sibling well, or just behave as we would like the to. Specifically paying attention to these incidents, (and looking for them too) can be very powerful - find something to praise - even if its just 'it was really kind and grown up when you let x play with your toy' or 'it was brilliant that you didnt get cross at brother when he was being a pain", or encouragement, such as "I am really proud of you when you are kind to your brother" (even if she generally isnt)

This helps her to understand how she can gain positive attention.

No, I want to punish her bad behaviour. I've been rewarding her for her good behaviour and it has turned her in a bad mouthing vile child who expects a 'reward' for putting her rubbish in the bin or her cup to the sink.

My child has AS - rewarding good behaviour with priase and cuddles is part of everyday language for us and it is how both of my children have been bought up.

What works for one child does not work for another. I have spent 6 years rewarding good and now punishments are due for being bad as just rewarding good is not working!! Sorry if you do not want to hear that but she is going to start getting punished before she is abusing the neighbours and I am the one left to say sorry.

Is she naughty at school? No, she is the model child.

I have a child who is AS, he does not have the patience to sit and play a game for more than 10 seconds so she has to play games with me. However, if I win then the board goes flying, the screaming starts and it's not fair. So I will not play games with her that result in this. There is no playing nicely unless she is winning and then gloating over it for an hour later. Same as on the DS and the Wii. So now she gets withdrawn from it if she cannot play nicely or takes it off her brother when he is playing. Punishment.

I have to get them from school. I'll be back.

Savvy_Sue

blue_monkey wrote: »

Can I strip her naked and get her to run around the garden with her hands behind her head a la Bootcamp......? Or is that a no too?? :rotfl:

I think that's a no no, but if the money thing was working for you, then ignore the HV and use that!

The 'classic' responses would be that the dressing up box goes completely away, into the bin if necessary, as does anything else she won't clear up. So, no more tinsel on the stairs. No Christmas tree if she wrecks that.

For those who have found that rewarding good behaviour works, great. But it appears that like bluemonkey, I had children for whom this did not work. They needed to be TOLD - in no uncertain terms - when their behaviour was unacceptable. If telling didn't work, then sanctions followed: no we can't do xyz because you do not know how to behave.

In fact DS1 used to look at me like an alien if I said things like "Thank you for doing that, it was really kind of you to share / let him have your toy" or whatever. Some children just do not 'get it'.

Glamazon

Not being a parent but helping to bring up my little sister who was born when I was 17 my advice may not be what you want to hear.
My sister who is now 8 could be a right little madam (she had older sisters so can't blame her!) I often assumed the role of 'Mum' and there were times when she loved and times where she completely ignored it. I was quite often called a silly tart or she rolled her eyes at me saying 'Whatever' - but a swift smack when she got really naughty soon put a stop to it. (My parents were happy for me to discipline her as I looked after her a lot)

Smacking a child isn't going to do them any harm (This thread will probably turn into a debate on this but I don't care its my opinion) - it never did me any harm, all my mum had to do was take her slipper off and I knew I'd get smacked with it if I was good - I instantly stopped being a brat. Smacking a child doesn't mean you are a bad parent, a firm smack on the bum could be the shock tactic you need to use, she's obviously not listening to anything else. You don't have to smack her too hard but just enough to show her who's boss. Good luck

blue_monkey_2

Thanks for the responses so far. I should explain more. I work from home so I am always here. We do not have people to help us out at all, it's just me, hubby and the kids. I am up early - I've done 3-4 hours before school starts - as have they. DD is usually up at 6am, however she is usually in bed by 7pm and then goes to sleep. On a rare occassion she will read - but this is rare as usually she is tired due to getting up early so she is not lacking sleep at all. As DS wakes everyone else up when he is awake I try to keep him as quiet as poss until 6am but by them she is usually awake due to it being the routine. However, she is like it in the mornings too, not just at night. I've a room at the front of the house not attached to the neighbours and if she has a tantrum I put her in there and tell her when she is being quiet and civilised she can come out of the room and join the rest of us.

She has come home from school and put something in the bin and said 'can I have a penny now'. I've said no, not this time. I need a rethink. Being 'fined' for being naughty was working great but the HV pushed and pushed me to change this as I was not 'rewarding positive behaviour'. I was annoyed about this as she had never even met the kids so had no idea what they were like. I did say I would give it a go though. She was never an angel but she was never as bad as this. She is not bothered whether she is being ignored or whether she has got someone to play with as she prefers playing on her own.

If I was to sit and draw or do art with her if I was to touch something she had done it would result in a tantrum and it would be screwed up and thrown - as also demanstated when one of my friends tried to help her by sticking something on the art she had done. Nio, totally the wrong thing to do. I know it must be hard to understand but everything has to be on her terms - if she wants a cuddle she will ask for it, if I ask if she wants a cuddle then it will usually be no, if she is doing something she does not want anyone else helping, if she is playing a game she has to be winning or will not play.

Where has she got 'I am calling the police from?' I have not got a clue, it can only be from school though - the same as most things are it is fair to say. My children are rewarded positively all the time - as I say, because of my sons condition it is part of life for us to make sure he is rewarded verbally/physically for the good things he does/says so my daughter is too. I certainly do not spend the entire time shouting at them but I want to nip this in the bud before it escalates and I think at this age she should be due punishments.

Time out does not work. If I am out of the room and either of them are being horrid they are removed from the room to sit with me in the kitchen on the floor or whatever until I tell them they are able to go back in the room.

I certainly do not want a debate on smacking, that is down to personal choice and because of my son's condition it would not be anything he understands..... but..... I sometimes wonder if I smacked on her on her bare bottom that the shock mightmake her start bahving (yeah I know, fat chance!! LOL, but you understand what I mean).

She has lots of 1:1 time with me - more than her brother does - and I have never once heard them fighting over who is loved more or anything like that, I do understand that they are going to be squabbles but I want to stop the lip, naughty and abusive behaviour before it gets any worse. My son is very physical and if she is on a chair or sofa he will leap on her but rather than tell me so I can get him off (if my back is turned) she will just kick him full on in the face or punch him. Lately if she has wanted something that he has (for example the Wii remote) to get it off him she will physically attack him. So she does not get it at all. I have also been making her apologise for what she does to people or if she has a tantrum.

I have to say that these tantrums are different to my son's AS tantrums, I guess it is hard for people to understand if you have not had experience of this, but there is a difference.

Savvy Sue - so what about running around the garden barefoot in a swimming costure, this thought is the only thing giving me a smile in these circumstances.

Oh, LOL, the other thing I do when she has a tantrum (which I probably should not) is put my fingers in my ears so I cannot hear her. :rotfl: Yes, I know you are going to tell me this is not the right thing to do but when faced with an hour tantrum sometimes all you can do is laugh about it and do something like this else I'd have a nervous breakdown!!

If I have missed anything else then please mention but I am posting this because I am out of the options that 'Supernanny' and Christopher Greene suggest. I've spent a fortune on charts that cannot be destroyed and stuff like that but it does not work, they just do not get it. She is super inteligent, I am not sure about bored as she has lots of things to play with and all the time in the world from me, so what else can it be. I wonder if I have made her a spoilt brat but the stuff she is not an 'I want' and 'I have everything ' kind of a child - so I am not sure. I am just drained and tired so want some more suggestions.

Is this new bahviour - no, but since stopping the money it has got worse. I certainly think I need to go back to fining the kids for their behaviour rather than giving them money for being good. Either way I am in the wrong. I am either in the wrong for 'not rewarding the positive' or getting a life of hell because I am not punishing the negative!

Just out of interest for the people who say I should just ignore the negative, just where do you draw the line on this? If your child was to kick someones car for example, do you just ignore this and reward them for giving their brother or sister a kiss? You see, it is upside down. They should be getting punished for kicking the car and praised for being nice to their siblings.

Please can someone lend me a time machine so I can bring my kids up in the 70's and 80's??

penguin83

BM - your daughter sounds a lot like mine (she is 5 1/2) and my son is severely Autistic. We have had major problems recently because my DD doesnt understand that her brother 'doesnt know' he is being naughty whereas she does. Our local Health Authority runs a class for kids aged 6 - 12 who have brothers or sisters with Autism - its somewhere they can let off steam and talk about how having a sibling with Autism affects their home life.

Does she maybe have issues with her brothers condition that is causing the behaviour?

With regards to how to handle the behaviour - we havent quite cracked that yet either. She is stubborn and would happily sit in an empty room for hours before saying sorry/tidying something away. Perseverance seems to be the key though, she has gone for 6 hours without a drink bacause she demanded one instead of asking - in the end she did ask but I felt awful that she had gone that long. Interestingly, she wouldnt dare behave like this for her Dad - he works nights so doesnt often see the children - but he will smack her and she knows it, so she doesnt push it.

Anyway gone on a bit now but I can sympathise with you even though I cant offer much help sorry x x x

blue_monkey_2

I wanted to answer this one really as it covers a lot what is here:

tamlem wrote: »

If you see her do anything remotely nice, eg. say something nice to her brother, say please or thank you, do something the first time you tell her, then do a really emphatic "wow, that was such a lovely thing to say to x" "I'm so pleased that you did that as soon as I asked you", and give her a hug.

We do this all the time anyhow, just something like eating her breakfast nicely gets her a hug, it is not like I do not hug and praise my kids because is just part of our household (I realise this makes me sound a bit strange) but we just do it - by habit now I guess. Fantastic, well done, etc... Maybe it is because I do it too much they do not appreciate it?

I would also avoid getting embroiled in conversations on her level. ie. I would have ignored her calling the police remark so she is not gaining attention from behaving badly.

I did not mean this, I meant I get down to her eye level so I can speak TO her not DOWN at her. Does that make sense?

Lastly could you make time to do something together just the two of you where you can spend a bit of quality time together and find lots of opportunities for hugs and praise?

We do, I have to swimming lessons with her - I was in the water but now I do not have to go in - but I am at the edge giving a thumbs up or mouthing well done.

We do not have any one to help us with childcare so maybe they see too much of us, I do not know. My husband is on call sometimes in the month, if he is then I cnanot take DD daughter out and leave DS with him as if he gets called he has to go out. So usually it is just us. We cannot change that unfortunately but we do the best we can in the circumstances.

Nicki

Hi. I have one AS and one NT child as well, aged 7 and 8 at the moment. The AS child is the younger. What I've found is that even though my older child is definitely NT, nonetheless he has more in common with his sister than you might think. I wonder whether this might also be the case with your DD? So for example rather than being naughty when someone stuck something on her picture, did she in fact have a meltdown because there was a loss of control? Could the incident with the lost remote have been made worse because she finds it hard to find one object amongst a jumble of other things?

With my DS, he is obviously more than able to learn what behaviours are acceptable and which are not. Also where there is a flashpoint, which seems to be caused by a leaning towards AS sensitivities (in his case he didn't behave well when the plan for the day was changed), then he could easily be taught coping strategies.

I want to stress that my DS is definitely not autistic. However they do say that autism is a continuum and that most of us have some elements of it somewhere in our psyche. When you know it is in the family genetic make-up, it makes more sense to me that there might be some areas where my DS needs to work harder than other children to learn good behaviour. What I would suggest (as it has worked for me) is to analyse incidents of bad behaviour (use the Iceberg if you've done Earlybird and find this model helpful) for your DD as well as your DS, and try to structure her day as well as his to minimise stressful points. Where there is a meltdown, try to ignore it (assuming she is safe), then when she is calm discuss with her what happened and how she must behave in the future. If there is to be a punishment explain this to her clearly but make it proportionate to the crime (eg with the incident the other morning, my punishment would have been to make her clear up the mess with support when she got home from school before any preferred TV or other activity. I might also have taught her a strategy as to how to look for a lost item - eg to retrace her steps, not to take more out of a drawer than she can put away easily and quickly, etc)

Finally, its important not to underestimate how stressful it is for a 6 year old to live with a sibling with AS who has tantrums and seems to get away with more in terms of behaviour than they can. My DS at 8 nearly 9 is only just able to start being able to articulate what this is like. He did struggle with the whole thing at age 6 though. There are some books aimed at this age group which you can get from NAS which might help.