Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

JerryW

That is very interesting, little vermin (can I call you Verm?) - I had no idea any of these co-ops would work nationwide.
For anyone wanting to switch Woldlink do sound promising but I agree that they should first make sure their installation is in good condition - many suppliers knowingly supply gas to noncompliant tanks that belong to them, but they won't take one on. Get the current supplier to certify it, not just the tank but the pipework too. All tanks have a date stamped on them, too. They have a legal duty to make it compliant if it isn't. And if that supplier happens to be Calor, and you've been paying over the odds (as I did for years, not knowing any better), that might be a contributing reason why... in addition to that get a new supplier to check it out and confirm. Tanks are pricy, pipework often even more so

LPG suppliers, especially the larger ones like flogas, avanti & calor, are not used to working in a market where customers have a choice. It is still a recent development, and the market is still very stodgy and illiquid. Gradually it is changing, and it is up to us to give it a push by not settling for the published rates but demanding a competitive one instead. Maybe we should set up a co-op ourselves? Moneysavingexpertlink? :-)

walpurgis

Someone has pointed out to me that there was an article on alternatives to Calor LPG for home heating posted on the Daily Mail Web site yesterday.

Not surprisingly, it is riddled with errors. For example, there is an impressive graph showing how the price of LPG has apparently fallen from just under 80p/litre in early 2012 to just over 60p/litre now! The graph comes from a Web site called whatgas.com. Is this, at last, a price comparison site for domestic LPG gas? No. It turns out to be "price sharing community" for vehicle fuel prices and the LPG prices they are referring to are for LPG as a car fuel!

They also say that the cost of heating a home using oil is 50% more than using mains gas. Although I don't use oil, I've heard that prices have come down substantially (because there is real competition in the oil market). I've even heard it suggested that oil is now the cheapest way of heating a UK home. So, I suspect that the Daily Mail figures are out of date.

Perhaps most perplexing is a statement from Calor which tells us what a marvellous job they are doing keeping their customers supplied with energy "while also offering a competitive price". They go on to say that they are reducing their "standard tariff" (whatever that is) by "over 13 per cent" from 28th February. This is more than twice as much as the 6% reduction they announced in a letter to me sent on 20th February. I think that someone else on this forum also mentioned the 6% figure. So has anyone here had a 13% reduction?

Curiously, the Daily Mail has stopped taking comments on its article just a day after it was posted. I wonder if people were saying things that the Mail (or Calor) didn't like?

AdrianC

walpurgis wrote: »

...Daily Mail...

Not surprisingly, it is riddled with errors.

Meanwhile, in other news, night follows day.

mcmullank

walpurgis wrote: »

They also say that the cost of heating a home using oil is 50% more than using mains gas.

I know people that are heating their homes using oil and even with the latest price decreases, the above statement would be correct. When Oil was up at the 60ppl level, gas was at the equivalent of around 35p. Now it is around 42ppl for oil and 28.8ppl equivalent for mains gas.

Ozzysmate

A quick update on my transfer from Avanti to Woldlink/Flogas:

I started the enquiry on 3rd Feb and requested a transfer.

11th Feb. I received the transfer papers from Flogas which I completed and emailed back to them.

18th Feb. Avanti Retentions called and offered a further reduction to 35p/L having earlier offered 38p/L after I called, having received their contract renewal papers stating no change from 46p/L

Friday, 27th I received a letter, dated 24th from Flogas with confirmation of the transfer. The below ground tank is now their responsibility for <£100/year paid by direct debit.

Friday 27th I called Woldlink and placed an order for 1,500L at a cost of £375 That, including 5% VAT, equates to 25p/L

No fixed prices, offers or giveaways, payment is taken at time of ordering and Woldlink email the price/L monthly so you can judge when might be the best time for a top up.

LittleVermin

Three editions of the FAQs have been published (in 2009, 2012 and 2013, respectively by the Competition Commission then twice by the Office of Fair Trading) but recent attempts to find them produced a 404 (page not found).

BUT in January they were republished by the Competition & Markets Authority here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/399517/LPG_FAQs.pdf

The responsible person is Bob MacDowall, Mgr, Remedies Monitoring Team
email: [EMAIL="bob.macdowall&#64;cma.gsi.gov.uk"]bob.macdowall@cma.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

Enjoy!
..

LittleVermin

Paras 1 and 4 of Section 3 of the FAQs from the link in previous post. AND I have put in red and bold the last two sentences.

3. How do I switch supplier?

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]If you have a [/FONT][/FONT]dedicated tank [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]and wish to switch supplier then you can contact either your existing supplier or the new supplier to say that you want to transfer your tank and terminate your contract (if you have a contract). [/FONT][/FONT]

<snip>
[FONT=Arial,Arial]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]The suppliers in your area can be found on the uklpg website. Your existing supplier is required to tell you about when and how you can switch supplier and to refer you to the contact details for the LPG industry trade association (UKLPG). This information should be provided with new contracts and all invoices. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]
So - how many suppliers are providing this information? And if not, why not?

Maybe people could post whether this info is on their "contracts and all invoices", please. (Extra Fuel, my supplier, doesn't - but their contract is very short and written in normal English).
[/FONT]
[/FONT]

J_B

LittleVermin wrote: »

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]
Maybe people could post whether this info is on their "contracts and all invoices", please. (Extra Fuel, my supplier, doesn't - but their contract is very short and written in normal English).[/FONT][/FONT]

Nope - nothing on mine from Avanti

:eek:

LittleVermin

from the UKLPG website at http://www.uklpg.org/advice-and-information/how-to-switch-lpg-supplier/

(my red and bold, again!)

How to Switch – Domestic Bulk Customer
From the 13th April 2009 all bulk domestic LP Gas customers, that are supplied LP Gas via a bulk tank, can switch their LP Gas supplier along with the ownership of their tank. If you are an existing LP Gas customer you will be advised by your existing supplier when you will become eligible to switch.

....so is this happening? Please post whether you were told a few weeks before your last contract ended that you would soon be able to switch.
************************************************************

In the national archives the original Competition Commission docs are stored - including the press release (http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140402141250/http:/www.competition-commission.org.uk/assets/competitioncommission/docs/pdf/non-inquiry/press_rel/2006/june/pdf/35-06.pdf) and the quote below is on page 4 of 5 (I've edited to remove bits referring to the transition period back in 2009, hence the two lots of ...):

(v) suppliers to provide wake-up letters informing customers that they will be ... free to switch supplier ... within one month of the end of the customer’s exclusivity period.

so you should be getting this info ONE MONTH before the end of your contract.

I imagine a LOT of users still do not know they can switch. And, I believe, these will be supplied disproportionately by the majors. If users are not being told then we will need to contact the 'Remedies Monitoring Team' at the Competition & Markets Authority, just as some forum users chased up the old Office of Fair Trading to get the terms in the contracts some suppliers were sending out improved..
..

JerryW

Hey this is unfair, you guys are forcing me to compliment Calor again!
... Their contract is pretty comprehensive and covers 2 x A4 sheets. It is in plain English or at least is pretty readable. It clearly states what the possibilities are for termination by each party.
I have a had a letter from them every two years as required, stating that the contract minimum term is completed and offering to renew it. Normally I get a quote or two from somewhere else (eg Extragas) then phone them up and ask them to match it and they do - I posted here the last couple of times.
The contract does refer to the UKLPG codes of practice, and Calor do undertake to abide by them.

Think that about covers it?