Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

JerryW

AdrianC wrote: »

....
Shame they filled the tank a fortnight ago... <sigh>

I believe Calor (and maybe others) have an annual routine:

- quietly put price up in Autumn
- fill tanks as required over the winter, ensuring all tanks brim full by about now
- announce price cut for summer with great fanfare
- leave tanks alone for summer, half fill only when they must
- quietly put price up in Autumn

.. and repeat.

Or maybe I'm just an old cynic.

AdrianC

JerryW wrote: »

Or maybe I'm just an old cynic.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

TBF, they did have the delivery scheduled for the 1st week in March, which would have been after the reduction, but I noticed the gauge was very low, so brought it forward. D'oh.

LittleVermin

Further to recent posts by Walpurgis, LadyDee, AdrianC and JerryW:

I've just got a flyer via my postie with the strapline

Put some CALOR in your life which has a section

Ways to save with Calor including

Stable and fixed prices
We continually monitor our prices to ensure we stay competitive

And if you look on their website at http://www.calor.co.uk/home-energy/switching-lpg-supplier you'll find

Switching LPG supplier

If you’re coming to the end of your current LPG contract you could save on average £500† by switching to Calor. Customers who have switched to Calor from another supplier have saved on average £256† a year, and for a limited time only, we're also offering £250 of FREE gas when you switch.*

It's a great shame that Calor won't usually know the price people pay when they switch from Calor ...so they cannot also give the figure for how much people save from switching away from Calor. I'm sure they would have - if they only knew (because, as walpurgis discovered, Calor's owner's (SHV) 'philosophy' includes integrity, blah blah).


PS For anyone finding this post via a search engine I suggest you check out some of the following for cheaper LPG: Lister, Cardiff Gas, Extra Fuel, Lima Gas, HBS, woldlink, Birmingham Autogas, PremierLPG, etc....and compare the prices you have been paying against those in HateLPG's latest chart at http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=67709367&postcount=2424

You can cut and paste those charts from HateLPG's post ...and maybe send them to your supplier?

If Calor is your supplier and the price you are paying is not

"competitive" you might wish to complain to the Advertising Standards Authority. You can do that on-line - very easily! - at http://www.asa.org.uk
..

JerryW

I feel I should put in a little word for Calor. They are a relatively upmarket company in the lpg world, and they do maintain high standards of integrity. In my case, once I became aware that my tank was no longer compliant with current regulations, they removed it and replaced it with a new tank in a different location. They also renewed all of the pipework between the tank and the house inlet, which in my case was a serious job. All free.

When I complained about the price, they sent a sales rep along, we discussed it and they agreed a far better price. They are not a vanilla, basement-price company, and will never be. But I think if you use forums like this to inform yourself about what is a good price etc., they will respond and you can have a good relationship with them.

They will never give you the cheapest price in the world without you even asking.. but that is normal these days. Try going to a car main dealer, it won't ever be as cheap as the local garage but it is a slightly different selling proposition.. you pay your money, and make your choice

mcmullank

JerryW wrote: »

They will never give you the cheapest price in the world without you even asking.. but that is normal these days. Try going to a car main dealer, it won't ever be as cheap as the local garage but it is a slightly different selling proposition.. you pay your money, and make your choice

The difference being that the neither the main dealer nor the local garage will want to tie you into a 2 year contract, leaving you free to change should they not meet your level of expectation.

As far as LPG suppliers go, they are providing the same product. As long as you have reliable suppliers then cheapest wins.

walpurgis

JerryW wrote: »

- announce price cut for summer with great fanfare

Do you really get a reduction from Calor every year?

The 6% reduction that they have just announced is the first unsolicited cut that I can remember in many years of dealing with Calor. The only time they usually make a reduction is if you threaten to leave them.

The newly-announced reduction has been forced on them by the massive reduction of the wholesale price of LPG. But the 6% reduction is tiny compared to the fall in the wholesale price, which has more than halved in the past year (according to HateLPG's graphs).

Their excuse is that bought their gas at the end of last summer at a time when, they say, the effect of the decline of the oil price on LPG prices was "completely unforeseen". But a glance at the graphs shows that the wholesale price had been falling pretty steadily from 35p/litre at the start of 2014, to less than 25p/litre by the end of summer. So it was hardly "completely unforeseen". And since then it has continued to fall to less than 15p/litre (although it may have increased a bit in recent weeks).

I've always felt that Calor must have some pretty incompetent buyers. When LPG prices are rising, they always seem to leave their purchases too late and "regretfully" have to pass the increases on to their customers almost immediately. But now, when prices have been plummeting, they bought too early and can only pass on a measly 6% reduction to their customers - and then only at the end of the winter heating season, many months after they bought their gas.

With reference to JerryW's post defending Calor: I am glad that you are happy with their service but (as far as I am aware) the LPG you buy from any supplier is almost identical. So if Woldlink can fill a 1,200 litre tank for about £300 (and presumably make a profit), there is no excuse for Calor charging some customers around £600 for the same service.

Also the fact that you had a sales rep visit you to discuss your price, sounds as though you may be on a commercial contract. The prices for these can be a lot lower than for retail customers trapped in two-year contracts.

I'm hoping that I have enough gas in my tank to last me until later this year when my contract ends and I will be bidding farewell to Calor forever (I hope).

CillitBang111

Hello all,
If I could I would like to ask for some advice.
I will shortly be completing the purchase of a house in Cornwall which is currently under an Avanti Gas contract. Obviously I will have the option of continuing with that contract, negotiating a new deal or sourcing a new supplier entirely as the new owner of said property.
What sort of price per litre should I be loking for currently? Anything I should be looking out for to avoid?

LittleVermin

CillitBang111 wrote: »

Hello all,
If I could I would like to ask for some advice.
I will shortly be completing the purchase of a house in Cornwall which is currently under an Avanti Gas contract. Obviously I will have the option of continuing with that contract, negotiating a new deal or sourcing a new supplier entirely as the new owner of said property.
What sort of price per litre should I be loking for currently? Anything I should be looking out for to avoid?

Welcome!

The first thing to avoid is getting the tank filled by Avanti. There have been too many reports on this forum, and others, of majors filling tanks, unasked, when the property changes hands - this would seem to fall foul of the Unfair Trading Regs 2008 (unsolicited goods, no notice of price in advance). There's even a post about a new home-owner being threatened with court if they don't pay up. I do not know if any of these cases have involved Avanti but I do suggest you contact them, with an email read receipt request at the very least, saying you now (or will shortly) own the property, you are aware they own the tank but you do NOT want any LPG (unless of course you do!) and to make you an price offer and rental fee. Tie a copy to the tank, with a note to the tanker driver!

Your choice of suppliers (via your postcode in the box on www.uklpg.org ) will probably be the 3 majors (Calor, Flogas and Avanti), plus Extra Fuel /uklpg, and possibly Lima and also indirectly via a farmers' co-op (e.g. Mole Valley and ..maybe Woldlink). I'd get quotes from all these (for ppl, tank rental and for any fixed price deal they are offering). They HAVE to give a quote over the phone (if they want to quote) but this will be subject to a site visit (basically to see if the tank meets the current CoP - the UKLPG Code of Practice ....which they know but you can only find out if you buy them!). Several suppliers, including Calor, publish info on tank siting on their websites so you can easily spot gross non-compliance (overhanging trees or electricity lines, boundary too close, inflammable material nearby, etc).

Transparent prices currently are in the range of 31-42 currently - see HateLPG's latest chart at http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=67709367&postcount=2424 but Lima Gas may be lower and Woldlink (a farmers' co-op in the Lincs area will be - ask if they do deals nationally - as Mole Valley Farmers do). Prices may be a little lower if you use a lot (if you can get annual use - in litres - from the previous owner that would be useful info). Some companies (e.g. Calor) also offer 'free gas' - which will complicate your calculations.

Switching supplier is easy - and (usually!) quick - and you will probably keep the same tank, but with a new badge. The outgoing and incoming suppliers do all the work - you just fill in a switch form and send it to your new supplier. The outgoing supplier should NOT give you any grief - there have been no recent reports, apart from them suddenly improving their offers to price match (TAKE CARE: the small print in most of the majors' contracts have 'get out of jail free' clauses. Check posts by DAVID.T2 ..and the FAQs on Lister Gases's website).

Please post the prices you get!

Good luck!


Some phone numbers:
Extra Fuel - 0161 789 0000
Lima Gas - 023 8044 6467
Mole Valley Farmers - 01769 572201
Woldlink - 01507 605230
..

JerryW

walpurgis wrote: »

... With reference to JerryW's post defending Calor: I am glad that you are happy with their service but (as far as I am aware) the LPG you buy from any supplier is almost identical. So if Woldlink can fill a 1,200 litre tank for about £300 (and presumably make a profit), there is no excuse for Calor charging some customers around £600 for the same service.

Also the fact that you had a sales rep visit you to discuss your price, sounds as though you may be on a commercial contract. The prices for these can be a lot lower than for retail customers trapped in two-year contracts..

No, I'm on a normal 2 year contract like everyone else although I did negotiate some different clauses.

I don't really want to be defending Calor, I agree they are far from perfect. It is just that some of the previous posts have been a bit biased and I feel there are points on both sides. I agree they are seldom the cheapest and if all you want is a vanilla service - gas at the market bottom price - fair enough, go to a co-op or whatever, that's fine. But they won't make your tank compliant for you if it isn't, or spend a week persuading a mole to drag a pipe underneath a metre of concrete to replace the house connection. Just saying..

.. on edit: and you can deal with them on price too if you take the trouble to do so. But we have to accept responsibility for the price we pay, as most of us on this forum do, - what a useful resource this is! - and not just expect rock bottom prices without effort.

LittleVermin

There was a post by HateLPG about this 4 years ago:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=42284086&postcount=853

He said he had not checked all the farmers' co-ops, and some he'd contacted he found didn't supply to domestic users (unless they were also farmers).

Two which do supply nationwide to domestic users are Mole Valley Farmers - it'll cost you £10 to join MVF Plus - and Woldlink - free to join. Both of these use national and regional suppliers. So, for example, Woldlink supplies people across GB (currently from Inverness to Bristol) and uses Flogas, Calor, LPGas Direct, etc.. With Woldlink your contract is with the supplier, you pay the tank rental (probably about £65 above-ground or £100 underground) and you pay Woldlink upfront when you order. You cannot join Woldlink mid-contract, but there was a post some years ago about successfully switching a Flogas account to Mole Valley mid-contract. If you own your own tank give them a ring too! Woldlink's price changes each month, around the 1st (just like Lister's ANSI Tracker and Extra Fuel's).

Telephone numbers:
Mole Valley Farmers - 01769 572201
Woldlink - 01507 605230
and check Hate's post for other contacts.

If you want cheaper / cheaper / cheapest LPG - with a vanilla flavour (ref JerryW's recent posts! My delicate nose can only detect the mercaptans to make it smell) - this may be the way to go. Just make sure your tank is compliant first (Jerry makes a very good point about getting suppliers to fix problems ...but not all Calor customers have been so fortunate, or the customer so determined. The tanker driver has to check before each delivery: Flogas's delivery ticket has a box for the driver to tick "Site Inspection as per WI.9 []" so if they have been ticking this for years you have a case for the supplier to sort out any problem unless you are the cause, such as building a new wall or shed too close to the tank).
..

Late addition: Woldlink don't deal with metered estates. If you live on one you might check routly's most useful post here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=67772534&postcount=2431 and his earlier ones, plus http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=67724782&postcount=2426
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