Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

Ace_gas_guzzler

Phoned Avanti two days ago to order a refill and to find out what sort of notice would be needed for future refills. Spoke to a very helpful lady and explained that our tank was on 35% and would be down to 20% by the end of November. She made a delivery booking and explained that it could be a week or so until the tank was refilled. Yesterday, a tanker arrived and 1178 litres of LPG were delivered at 41.9p per litre. That's the first time in a long while that I've smiled at the idea of using LPG.......:)

£Driver

My thanks to HateLPG for his post on the 11th Oct showing the Graph of LPG (ppl) from Oct 2010 to Oct 2012 - a very useful graph.
My questions to HateLPG are:
1. Is it possible to update the graph.
2. Can he explain how to calculate the pence per litre price when the $ per tonne price is known.
There appears to have been a significant increase in the ANSI price of LPG since the low of 22ppl on the 1st July.
I have been informed by my supplier that the ANSI price has increased from $764/tonne in August to $933.5/tonne on the 13th Sept. The cost to me went from 46ppl to 49ppl. I have now been informed that the ANSI price has increased to $1021.5/tonne and that as from the 19th Nov the price to me will increase to 52ppl.
At a time when petrol is at a three month low I find such an increase difficult to understand.
I would be interested to see if the increases mentioned above are mirrored throughout the country.
Thank you all in advance.

£Driver

In an article from 'The Guardian' 30th Sept 2011, Mike Chapman of UKLPG said, LPG price tends to be less prone to major fluctuations not least because major gas firms tend to buy in advance. The vast majority of LPG used in the UK is in homes that off the main gas grid.
A second article from 'The Guardian' 16th April 2011 gives details of someone who decided to run his car on LPG; he refers to the LPG price in April 2011 being 75p/litre. With LPG taxed at 31.71p/l and allowing 5p/l for the retailer and delivery and 20% VAT of 12.5p, this leaves 25.79p/l to cover the cost of production and profit.
You may wonder why I refer to the cost of LPG at the pump in April 2011 of 75p/l. The answer is, today the cost at the pump is 75.9p!
Is the price we are paying the same as it was in April 2011?
Perhaps more research is required but thought I'd share this finding with you.

£Driver

Below is the cost per barrel of oil from 30th June 2007 to 16th Nov 2012
30th June 07 = $70.68
31st Dec 07 = $95.98
30th June 08 = $140.21
(A high point 4th July 2008 = $145.29)
31st Dec 08 = $44.60)
(A low point 13th Feb 2009 = $37.52)
30th June 09 = $69.45
31st Dec 09 = $79.36
30th June 10 = $78.86
31st Dec 10 = $91.38
30th June 11 = $94.94
30th Dec 11 = $98.83
30th June 12 = $84.96
16th Nov 12 = $86.92

I can well understand the panic back the first half of 2008 when the price of a barrel of oil doubled.
I don't remember the joy of lower prices for us in the second half of 2008 and 2009.
And what's causing the panic now with the price of a barrel of oil lower now than at the end of 2011 and way lower than at the end of 2008?
What is going on? Someone's making money and taking us for a ride.

Ace_gas_guzzler

£Driver brings up a series of rather disturbing questions regarding the price of oil and LPG. It had never occurred to me to make the link between LPG for cars and LPG for home heating. And he's right, we ARE being taken for a ride! Sadly, the powers that be in the OFT seem unable to take this on board. Why do we need to draw their attention to such anomalies of price and supply? Are they not being paid to do this sort of job anyway? I really hope that they have taken the time to view the posts on this site as so many correspondents have suggested in the past. Somehow, I have the feeling that our input gets no further than these pages as being a minor thorn in a very large and lumbering entity that should be renamed as the 'Office for unfair trading'.

Macadamia

£Driver wrote: »

I......The Guardian' 16th April 2011 gives details of someone who decided to run his car on LPG; he refers to the LPG price in April 2011 being 75p/litre. With LPG taxed at 31.71p/l and allowing 5p/l for the retailer and delivery and 20% VAT of 12.5p, this leaves 25.79p/l to cover the cost of production and profit.
You may wonder why I refer to the cost of LPG at the pump in April 2011 of 75p/l. The answer is, today the cost at the pump is 75.9p!
Is the price we are paying the same as it was in April 2011?
Perhaps more research is required but thought I'd share this finding with you.

Wow!:eek:
Thanks for posting this. Does seem odd. What's going on?
Anyone got any ideas on what we do to explore this further

gandoff

i have come to the end of my contract with Flo Gas,they want me to sign another at72p a litre.i have got a quote from ExtraGas at 42p but the problem will be where the tank is.other companies dont want the tank because they say it is in the wrong place but why over the last twenty have both British gas and F LO Gas kept on filling it up.what do i do?

chubbs85240

gandoff wrote: »

i have come to the end of my contract with Flo Gas,they want me to sign another at72p a litre.i have got a quote from ExtraGas at 42p but the problem will be where the tank is.other companies dont want the tank because they say it is in the wrong place but why over the last twenty have both British gas and F LO Gas kept on filling it up.what do i do?

first thing I would do is phone flogas and tell them you are going to leave as you have been offered 42ppl elsewhere and can they do anything to stop you moving as you really dont want to but the price difference is too good.

secondly, I'd ask Extragas to come and survey your property and tell you whether they will take you on, or what would need done for them to take you on.

Some of the providers I phoned told me they would pay for relocation costs, but charge me a one off £100 fee for the work.

hope this helps

LittleVermin

LittleVermin wrote: »

"To arrive by November 1st"

Email Tom Heideman [EMAIL="Tom.Heideman@oft.gsi.gov.uk"]Tom.Heideman@oft.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

Here's the stuff from the Office of Fair Trading website (here):
Info/comment:
1. the market is highly concentrated (the Competition Commission report said so!).
2. Calor has about 50% of the market, Flogas (before latest acquisition) about 20%, BP (now MacGas) about 10%, AvantiGas about 10% .... and the ?forty or so independents about 10-11%.
3. So now Calor has about 50% and Flogas about 30%.
4. In some areas - e.g. Midlands - there are many independents so that a supplier search by postcode on the UKLPG website may turn up 8, 9, 10 .. potential suppliers. And as we have seen on the forum users can haggle to get a decent price.
5. But in many areas a postcode search for potential suppliers just yields the 4 - or now 3 - majors.
6. This seems to go against the action, as well as spirit, of the CC report into the Domestic Bulk LPG supply.

Please send a short email to Tom Heideman if you haven't already done so.

...footnote: DCC (which owns Flogas) also supplies heating oil in the UK and has a policy of growing by acquisition (it's in their annual report) - and has bought many independent heating oil suppliers. These companies usually continue to trade under their original names - so customers believe there is more competition than really exists.
..

Estimated date of report is 3rd January 2013 (see here)......so something to look forward to after Christmas!

LittleVermin

£Driver wrote: »

In an article from 'The Guardian' 30th Sept 2011, Mike Chapman of UKLPG said, LPG price tends to be less prone to major fluctuations not least because major gas firms tend to buy in advance. The vast majority of LPG used in the UK is in homes that off the main gas grid.
A second article from 'The Guardian' 16th April 2011 gives details of someone who decided to run his car on LPG; he refers to the LPG price in April 2011 being 75p/litre. With LPG taxed at 31.71p/l and allowing 5p/l for the retailer and delivery and 20% VAT of 12.5p, this leaves 25.79p/l to cover the cost of production and profit.
You may wonder why I refer to the cost of LPG at the pump in April 2011 of 75p/l. The answer is, today the cost at the pump is 75.9p!
Is the price we are paying the same as it was in April 2011?
Perhaps more research is required but thought I'd share this finding with you.

Is the price we are paying the same as it was in April 2011?

Yes - see the graph posted by HateLPG here. The October 2012 wholesale price is about the same as April 2011's ... and the two independents' (Cardiff and Extra Fuel) web prices are about the same. Of course, what people are paying Calor, Flogas, etc may be quite different ...!

Autogas price is shown on the Whatgas website here for late 2005 to present.
..