Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

safara

Eeek ordered and paid for 1000L of LPG from Flogas on thier website. They came today and filled the tank up to 80% - a total of 1450L !

I suppose they are going to invoice me for the extra 450L...

Why do they do this? I now have to find an extra £250 or so!

fly-tarquinnius

Hello,

Have lurked here for quite a while - very useful thread for the last couple of years , time to report some success...

BP/Macgas recently put up my price by 6.5ppl quoting market pressure (etc etc...) and a 70+% increase in wholesale since the last 'increase'. Was somewhat suspicious and checked back through the old paperwork and the last time they had to quote the market benchmark rate - in feb 2011 - the peak amount was about the same! Called them to complain, and they were relatively helpful and prompt in getting back to me, and reduced the rise to 1.5ppl, citing 'an error'. (Had I not been taking their return call after a night shift, I might have pushed for more of a reduction, as they filled my tank in may with no mention that they were paying 40% less....)

For reference, am in west scotland and paying 47ppl +vat now for about 4000l/yr.

Thanks to all in the past for great info, esp HateLPG and LittleVermin!

F-T

DAVID.T_3

£Driver wrote: »

In an article from 'The Guardian' 30th Sept 2011, Mike Chapman of UKLPG said, LPG price tends to be less prone to major fluctuations not least because major gas firms tend to buy in advance. The vast majority of LPG used in the UK is in homes that off the main gas grid.
A second article from 'The Guardian' 16th April 2011 gives details of someone who decided to run his car on LPG; he refers to the LPG price in April 2011 being 75p/litre. With LPG taxed at 31.71p/l and allowing 5p/l for the retailer and delivery and 20% VAT of 12.5p, this leaves 25.79p/l to cover the cost of production and profit.
You may wonder why I refer to the cost of LPG at the pump in April 2011 of 75p/l. The answer is, today the cost at the pump is 75.9p!
Is the price we are paying the same as it was in April 2011?
Perhaps more research is required but thought I'd share this finding with you.

Tax on LPG road fuel is not 31.7p it is 15.81p per Ltr

£Driver

David T, thank you for your post.
I have double checked my figures by going to the HM Revenue and Customs site.
The duty on Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) is currently 31.61p/kg rising to 37.34p/kg on or after 1st Jan 2013
Assuming a density of LPG at 0.505kg/litre at 15 degrees centigrade the Tax of 31.61p/kg equates to 15.96p/litre.
I had previously referred to the 'whatgas.com' website for my information where the tax data for LPG is clearly incorrect.
My sentence should now read:
With LPG taxed at 15.96p/l and allowing 5p/l for the retailer & delivery, and 20% VAT of 12.65p; this leaves 42.29p to cover the cost of production and profit.
For information, the cost of LPG at the pump is still 75.9p as of today. It was 79.9p/l on the 6th August!
My question is:.......why has my LPG price risen from 43ppl in July to 49ppl in Sept to 52ppl in November WHEN THE PRICE AT THE PUMP HAS FALLEN by 4ppl from August until now reflecting the drop in the price of oil. I do not see the logic other than someone is increasing their profit margin at my expense. I guess I'm not the only one who's in this situation.

£Driver

With reference to the above, I wonder if we will see a further rise in January on the back of the tax rise on LPG at the pump. My calculation shows the tax on LPG will rise from 15.96ppl to 18.86ppl. Such a rise should of course have no effect on domestic prices. I wonder.........

£Driver

I should add that the web page I referred to from whatgas.com has the title 'How much Fuel Duty do we pay for Petrol? (2012). On other pages of the same site the Tax level for LPG is correctly stated at 31.6p/Kg. I have emailed the site.

rachieb77

Hello, I posted back in September and received some very useful general advice about LPG (being a complete novice) so thought I would come back to see if you can share your wisdom again

The house we moved into in September had a decent amount of LPG left in the tank by the previous owner (about £500 worth), but we are now on about 25% capacity.

It's a 600kg above ground tank (so holds 1200 litres at 85% capacity) and I've been told the previous owner's last two deliveries were 650 litres in Jan 2012 and 650 litres in May 2012.

The current supplier is Countrywide and we haven't signed a contract with them yet, due to there being a decent amount in the tank when we moved in.


I've been shopping around in the past week and have been offered:

• Countrywide (current supplier)
  49.5ppl + 5% VAT
  £60 per year tank rental (plus VAT)

• Calor
  48ppl + 5% VAT fixed until 30 Sep 2013, then max 3.5ppl increase every 3 months (there's a get-out clause if they increase it more than this)
  £60 per year tank rental (plus VAT)
  £150 free gas plus free boiler service

• Avanti
  43ppl + 5% VAT fixed for 6 months, then max 5ppl rise every 6 months
  £60 per year tank rental (plus VAT)

• Flogas
  46ppl + 5% VAT fixed for 9 months, then max 3ppl rise every 3 months
  £60 per year tank rental (plus VAT)
  £150 free gas

• Callow Gas
  46ppl + 5% VAT (no info about fixing or price rises)
  £50.40 per year tank rental (incl. VAT)

• Cardiff Gas
  50ppl + 5% VAT variable (no contract)
  £76.65 per year (incl. VAT)

• Lister Gas (using deal with Malvern Hills District Council)
  53.9ppl + 5% VAT variable rate
  £40 per year tank rental (plus VAT)

All of the above are subject to a 2 year contract, with the exception of Cardiff Gas which is contract-free.

I've ruled out Flogas as their customer services rep was terrible and Lister Gas as they seem to be very expensive, even with the council deal.

I'm obviously tempted by the Calor offer as I've worked out that, with the £150 of free gas, our first 1200 litres would work out at about 37ppl.

I haven't gone back to Countrywide yet to see if they will improve their offer (someone told me they are part of Calor?).

My question is: which deal would you go for?

I've been trying to think longer-term and not get tempted into a good short-term deal where the supplier could then increase the prices and we are tied in for 2 years.

I'm also aware we are signing a contract at the most expensive time of year and am wondering would it be better to just go with Cardiff Gas for now (as it would be contract-free) and then try and negotiate a better deal in the new year when prices may drop (any ideas whether they do traditionally drop in the Spring?).

Also - I've been told to change supplier takes around 28 days. Would Countrywide give us a contract-free top-up in the meantime if we needed one? The lady I spoke to at Avanti said they should.

Thanks in advance!

chubbs85240

I had a similar dilemma to you, but went with AvantiGas in the end, as I managed to get them to give me the 43.9 ppl for 1 year fixed (they offered 41.9ppl for 6 months). Also if they rise above 5ppl in any 6 month period your free to walk (standard clause)

I also got them to discount my tank rental to £32.50 p.a.

so they may be worth a little renegotiation....

Although I was tempted by calor, as the £150 does give a fair old saving

In terms of waiting to get a better contract, I again had a similar dilemma, but thought if it was fixed for a year, I would make sure that Dec next year I got it filled to the max, before my deal ran out, meaning this winter and half of next winter would be covered by that price and I could get a new deal before the next winter!

Handyman1

I have a contract from Bp Gas who were taken over by Macgas and was told it was a fixed price for so long and then variable with a limited increase of 2.5p a litre every 6 months till end of contract, now one year into contract and price has gone up by 6p/litre, I disputed this and was informed that small print stated they can, if gas price increases considerably, and that I could not leave the contract, so I am committed to paying as much as they feel they can get away with. I did some research using MSE website and learned that in fact the LPG price has not gone up more than a few percent since well before my contract started. (and also using BP gas's own letters) I re-approached Macgas but they are not willing to change anything and the price has increased and I am stuck in the contract

So if you are looking to start a contract with Macgas bear in mind the following.
1.They use short term the seasonal variations to justify massive increases in gas price after the fixed price period.
2. You are then tied into the contract at whatever price they choose.
3. they will not give any details of variations on Bulk prices to argue their case except the short period when they choose to increase their base price (whatever that may be)
4. despite what other postings have said they will not negotiate in my case.
I have benn a customer of Macgas/BP gas/Macgas for many years and customer loyalty counts for nothing.
5. from what I have learned other companies give you the option of ending contract if they go over their quoted maximum.
6.I could get a new contract with Calor at a gas price less than I was paying at Macgas before the increase fixed for 9 months (If I was allowed to) and the option to end the contract if they increase the price more than 3.5ppl every 3 months and £150 free gas, and from the forum there are even better deals out there.

I will be looking for legal advice to see if Macgas are in breach of Contract.

LittleVermin

Handyman1 wrote: »

I have a contract from Bp Gas who were taken over by Macgas

<snip>

I will be looking for legal advice to see if Macgas are in breach of Contract.

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for posting this warning. MacGas is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Flogas (a DCC company) of which there innumerable negative posts on the forum.

Before you start spending money on legal advice you might want to send all this info to Sharon Dias at OFT - with a copy to Tom Heideman who is looking at the competition element of the take-over of BP's LPG business by Flogas (see my recent post here, plus earlier posts by several forum users).

[EMAIL="sharon.dias&#64;oft.gsi.gov.uk"]sharon.dias@oft.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

[EMAIL="Tom.Heideman&#64;oft.gsi.gov.uk"]Tom.Heideman@oft.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

Please keep us posted.
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