Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

frankie

HateLPG wrote: »

Rants being all well and good (and extremely cathartic ) the OFT are more likely to take into account a well argued case (see LV's post for some good ideas). So if you are thinking of firing off an email to the OFT, don't forget to make a calm and considered case based on fact while you're letting off steam

I used 'rant' as a generic term. My e-mail covered my concerns that lpg was less competitive due to merging of companies.

chubbs85240

Just want to add my last post on my own situation

Avantigas came out and surveyed the site - no issues, so I can switch

they left me paperwork offering 41.9ppl fixed for 6 months or 43.9ppl fixed for 12 months, then a cap at max increase of 5p per litre in any 6 month period (but according to the man who spoke with my wife, they likely wont use that increase !)

I also checked with them, and there is not a clause regarding wholesale gas increases, so 5p is max increase in any 6 months full stop.

I am therefore going to go with the the 43.9ppl fixed for 12 months

that way I will make sure my tank is refilled to the max in December next year and then again before the 18 month mark, and move again at the 24 month stage.

as I see it, I will pay 43.9ppl for 1 year, max 48.9ppl until June 2014, after this, if the price goes up, I will avoid topping up again until I secure a new deal (all prices are +VAT 5%)

I want to give a huge thanks out for this thread, it has probably saved me around £1000 a year, so I am well chuffed (just annoyed I didnt do this years ago!!!)
:money:

HateLPG

chubbs85240 wrote: »

they left me paperwork offering 41.9ppl fixed for 6 months or 43.9ppl fixed for 12 months, then a cap at max increase of 5p per litre in any 6 month period

Which in today's market is a VERY good price. Two months ago, I would have haggled over that (and indeed I did), but I very much doubt you'd find anything better right now.

chubbs85240 wrote: »

(but according to the man who spoke with my wife, they likely wont use that increase !)

Don't bet on it. To be fair, I was previously with Avanti and they did not put the price up like clockwork every 6 months. But note that the 5ppl is not a cap - all that magic number does is allow you to leave your contract (subject to notice etc) if they exceed that.

chubbs85240 wrote: »

I also checked with them, and there is not a clause regarding wholesale gas increases, so 5p is max increase in any 6 months full stop.

I've just checked over the Avanti renewal contract I was offered a few weeks ago and (surprisingly) you are quite right - there appears to be no index linkage to wholesale pricing, just a flat maximum increase of 5ppl (I didn't read it with my usual care at the time as I was planning to try the independent route as a matter of principle anyway, and Avanti couldn't get their offer low enough - I would have wanted sub 39ppl + VAT from them - to tempt me back).

However, caveat emptor: my experience of Avanti, while absolutely fine in terms of delivery etc., was that they were quite happy to exceed the 5ppl limit if it was clear that market prices were such that I wouldn't find a competitive enough deal elsewhere to make it worth switching. I suppose we have to accept that is fair enough if wholesale prices skyrocket like they did last winter.

But, they were far more reluctant to reduce the price again in line with wholesale prices when they fell in spring. I didn't have to push the point as I didn't need a fill over the summer, but you can be damned sure that they wouldn't offer a commensurate reduction without being pushed!

mariner46

Hi All
Just found the forum and have read about the 5ppl maximum allowable increase in a six month period

Just had a price increase from Flogas from 44ppl to 51ppl. We are 12 months into a two year agreement and this is the first increase in that time. Does this mean that they have breached the 5ppl maximum allowed and that I am entitled to shop around or because it is 7ppl in 12 months they are within their rights?

Clarification would be appreciated.

chubbs85240

Thanks for your reply

I was joking about the increase - I am fully expecting a 5p increment after 12 months.


your right in that anything above 5p breaks their agreement and you can leave.

they way I look at it, is if they do put it up over 5ppl, then they would have to have a good reason - and I am guessing all other suppliers would be doing the same as the underlying cost wil have gone up

therefore, regardless of who I am with, this outcome would be the same.

the fact I am starting at a base of 43.9ppl, rather than 71.9ppl as I am currently on means I can only be better off

Also BP put the price up when the wholesale price fell again!!!

chubbs85240

mariner46 wrote: »

Hi All
Just found the forum and have read about the 5ppl maximum allowable increase in a six month period

Just had a price increase from Flogas from 44ppl to 51ppl. We are 12 months into a two year agreement and this is the first increase in that time. Does this mean that they have breached the 5ppl maximum allowed and that I am entitled to shop around or because it is 7ppl in 12 months they are within their rights?

Clarification would be appreciated.

The 5ppl agreement is specific to the Avantigas contract.

You will need to check your flogas contract, as to whether they have any caps and they have broken any agreement

for example, BP's contract stated anything above 2.5ppl increase in any 6 month period, had to be justified by a similar rise in wholesale cost

frankie

Just had a reply to my e-mail from Tom Heideman:


'Thank you for contacting us to pass on your concerns about this merger. It would be helpful for our assessment of the merger if we have an idea of the areas in the UK that concerns are coming from.

Could you therefore please let us know the first part of your postcode or the town that you live in?

Kind regards Tom Heideman Tom Heideman |

Principal Case Officer | Mergers | Office of Fair Trading Fleetbank House | 2-6 Salisbury Square, London EC4Y 8JX | T: 020 7211 8499 | [EMAIL="tom.heideman@oft.gsi.gov.uk"]tom.heideman@oft.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]'

I will of course reply with the info he wants but I also wondered if it would be useful to include a link to and mention about this forum and the general dissatisfaction with the lpg domestic market?

Opinions??

LittleVermin

frankie wrote: »

Just had a reply to my e-mail from Tom Heideman:


'Thank you for contacting us to pass on your concerns about this merger. It would be helpful for our assessment of the merger if we have an idea of the areas in the UK that concerns are coming from.

Could you therefore please let us know the first part of your postcode or the town that you live in?

Kind regards Tom Heideman Tom Heideman |

Principal Case Officer | Mergers | Office of Fair Trading Fleetbank House | 2-6 Salisbury Square, London EC4Y 8JX | T: 020 7211 8499 | [EMAIL="tom.heideman@oft.gsi.gov.uk"]tom.heideman@oft.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]'

I will of course reply with the info he wants but I also wondered if it would be useful to include a link to and mention about this forum and the general dissatisfaction with the lpg domestic market?

Opinions??

The more people who know about the so-called 'market' in domestic bulk LPG the better!

He doesn't have to read the forum - but at least he'll know about it. And maybe get one of his team to scan it.

And since it's still November 1st I reckon there's still time to wing off an email to Tom Heideman:

[EMAIL="tom.heideman@oft.gsi.gov.uk"]tom.heideman@oft.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

*****

In my email I made the point that competition in the bulk LPG market varied enormously depending on where you lived. I reckon about 100 people scan this forum - if just half emailed him! You don't need to have had a bad experience with Flogas - or even BP. Further concentration of the market is bad for ALL of us LPG-users. The majors will mop up the independents, as they have before. And Flogas will probably be in the lead, as they have been with heating oil.

HateLPG

I fear this thread might soon attract a lot of interest from our foreign cousins, poor souls:

Flogas aims to create Europe-leading business

DCC Energy has announced the creation of the Flogas Group, incorporating four key European hubs: Flogas Britain, Flogas Ireland, Flogas Netherlands & Belgium (trading as Benegas) and Flogas Sweden & Norway.

The creation of the Flogas Group is part of DCC Energy’s strategy to become the leading oil and LPG distribution business in Europe...

From http://www.hvnplus.co.uk

Tiger_eyes_4-2

I am on a metered shared supply so have less chance to change supplier. We use J Gas Ltd who are a Scottish firm who supply the east of Scotland, I am currently paying 49.63ppl, this went up from 45ppl on the 1st Sept. I haven't had any problems with my supply so can't really comment on their service, they monitor the level in the tanks and fill them when needed, but any contact I have had with them has been good. I've received a letter from them saying that they now offer a Heating System Safeguard Plan so once I find out heir prices I will post it on the relevant thread.
Angie