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  • FIRST POST
    little_h
    Just found out about my partner's debts :(
    • #1
    • 1st Jul 10, 10:18 PM
    Just found out about my partner's debts :( 1st Jul 10 at 10:18 PM
    Hi everyone, I don't post much on here but read a lot on here and use the wedding section of the forum and have a debt free diary thread too.

    On Friday my world kind of came crashing down around my ears. I found out from my fiance's best friend that my fiance is in an awful lot of debt, and has been lying about it for years.

    I have known something wasn't quite right for a little while, and had cold feet about our rapidly approaching wedding (August this year) as a result. I had heard a few things, checked up on them and found them to not be true so had left them alone.

    I am in stacks of debt myself, but this has arisen from a very specific situation and I have a good income to be able to manage it and if it came to it, I could sell things to clear most of it. My fiance knows about this debt, initially he didn't know just how much but he has done for the last few months.

    I am in such a turmoil. I love him so much (and this has made me realise I love him even more than I thought) but he has told so many lies, including taking something that did not belong to him and offering it in part payment of a debt. This was my most loved possession and was a gift from my dad, so not mine to give away and certainly not his to give away either.

    I know I can help him with the debt (not financially but I am experienceed enough in dealing with people and writing letters where as he is not) and he wants to move back in to help with my bills and have somewhere to live. But my family don't want me to have anything to do with him and won't support me if I have him back. I doubt my friends will support me either, the lying is extensive and destructive.

    I am deeply scared he is in a pattern of behaviour which he cannot get out of, and if I have him back he will have no incentive to change.

    I am soul searching, as I read so many tales of people being forgiven by their partners and getting support to sort everything out.

    am I a bad person to question whether I take him back? Given he has stolen from me? I know he was desperate but I feel I can't trust him or believe a single word he says

    I hope this gives people anotehr side of the tale, and also hope anyone hiding things from their partner can find the courage to be honest. The lying is the very worst bit.

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    Last edited by Former MSE Wendy; 06-07-2010 at 7:21 PM.
    9,742 Virgin card (mixture of 6.9% life of balance, rest 0%)
    3,925 Mint card (0%)
    4,181 Bank of Scotland card (0%)
    850 overdraft
    8,720 on my car loan (8.9%, 39 months to go)
    Total... 27,418
Page 1
    • Nottoobadyet
    • By Nottoobadyet 1st Jul 10, 10:24 PM
    • 1,745 Posts
    • 5,826 Thanks
    Nottoobadyet
    • #2
    • 1st Jul 10, 10:24 PM
    • #2
    • 1st Jul 10, 10:24 PM
    Im sorry - what a horrible situation! Hugs to you, Im sure you need them.

    Im sure someone with more experience will be along in a bit. As you know, getting out of debt it tough but most people do it without lying and stealing, and personally I wouldnt be able to trust a partner who did something like what you're going through. Maybe its worth putting off the wedding untill you feel you can trust him again, or feel secure enough to extract yourself?
    Mortgage free by 30: 28,000/100,000
    Debt free as of 1 October, 2010
    Taking my frugal life on the road!
  • little_h
    • #3
    • 1st Jul 10, 10:31 PM
    • #3
    • 1st Jul 10, 10:31 PM
    thank you for your reply, the wedding is already postponed. I havent cancelled anything yet (can't bear to tell the vicar althouhg I have asked her if she is available for a chat)

    All I can think is of him being made homeless and ending up on the streets because I won't take him in. At the end of the day he hasn't murdered anyone, raped anyone, interfered with children or hurt animals.

    but it's still pretty serious
    9,742 Virgin card (mixture of 6.9% life of balance, rest 0%)
    3,925 Mint card (0%)
    4,181 Bank of Scotland card (0%)
    850 overdraft
    8,720 on my car loan (8.9%, 39 months to go)
    Total... 27,418
  • GeorgeUK
    • #4
    • 1st Jul 10, 10:34 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Jul 10, 10:34 PM
    I gambled and owed more than twice my annual salary. Yes, i know what it feels like to be desperate. Stealing never crossed my mind though.

    On reading your post, my initial though was is it gambling or drugs. I have no idea of his situation (and we don't need to know), but it is clearly destructive to both himself and those around him. If it isn't an addiction of some sort and he is stealing from you - is it to pay loansharks who were threatening him?

    There is no excuse for what he's done. He may have had, or thought he had a good reason, but he didn't give you a second thought when he stole from you - it was all about him. If he is able to return what he stole from you then i think you could start thinking about forgiving him, but is something that precious was taken, i wouldn't be able to trust him - and that's what relationships are based on.

    Only you will know his situation, but is it possible that he's just looking for a cheap place to stay while he gets himself sorted financially?

    Whatever you decide, i wish you luck. I would also warn against giving him any financial assistance if or when you are able to. Even if you ever got something in writing from him.
    After falling off the gambling wagon (twice): 33,600 (24,000+ 9,600) - Original CC Debt: 7,885.91

    Dad Gift 6k Savings & Inv Tst: 2,500
    Loan 10k: 0 Dad 5.5k: 2,270 LTSB: 0 RBS: 0 Virgin 0 Egg 0

    Total Owed: 2,270 (+6k) 11/08/2011
  • little_h
    • #5
    • 1st Jul 10, 10:39 PM
    • #5
    • 1st Jul 10, 10:39 PM
    thank you GeorgeUK, that's a really interesting perspective.

    I have now got back what was taken after I threatened the police, neither him nor his former landlord needed a conviction for handling stolen goods so thankfully sense was seen and I collected my possessions today.

    I am not in a position to help him financially other than supporting him dealing with his creditors. I asked him about gambling and drugs but he denied it, by the sounds of it he has outstanding debts from a long time ago and has been paying court orders and things.

    my parents have asked what i will get out of the relationship, compared to what he will get from me helping him. I don't mean what i will get financially, but emotionally and psychologically.

    Scary times!

    Thank you for your posts though.
    9,742 Virgin card (mixture of 6.9% life of balance, rest 0%)
    3,925 Mint card (0%)
    4,181 Bank of Scotland card (0%)
    850 overdraft
    8,720 on my car loan (8.9%, 39 months to go)
    Total... 27,418
    • clarab
    • By clarab 1st Jul 10, 10:39 PM
    • 673 Posts
    • 480 Thanks
    clarab
    • #6
    • 1st Jul 10, 10:39 PM
    • #6
    • 1st Jul 10, 10:39 PM
    This is a very harsh question. but does he have a habit of lying about/hiding other things as well?

    Im asking to try to see if the lying is related to the debt or if you perhaps have a bigger problem on your hands.

    I've been there, its a lonely road. Might I suggest you see a counsellor?
  • FraudBuster
    • #7
    • 1st Jul 10, 10:43 PM
    • #7
    • 1st Jul 10, 10:43 PM
    My gran told me:

    "Leopards don't change their spots"
    • clairbear1000
    • By clairbear1000 1st Jul 10, 11:14 PM
    • 113 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    clairbear1000
    • #8
    • 1st Jul 10, 11:14 PM
    • #8
    • 1st Jul 10, 11:14 PM
    Hi,

    Big hugs first of all.

    It's a bit of a cop out for me to say, but only you know the answer. Is your life going to be worse with him in it or with him out of it. Also, you don't want to take him back and be bitter about things, its not that you would have to forgive him straight away if at all but you would have to live with what he has done.

    Your family would come around, they are just looking out for you and want the best for you.

    It might be best to have as much of a break from him as you can to try and get things in perspective. Sorry I can't be of anymore help. Everyone here is really nice and will help as much as possible.
  • andrea1968
    • #9
    • 1st Jul 10, 11:38 PM
    • #9
    • 1st Jul 10, 11:38 PM
    I was in a similar situation although admittedly I knew about my ex partners debts but not the scale. Every situation is different & I can only give you my experience but I bailed him out more times than I care to remember, everytime there was a different excuse as to why it had happened again & everytime the amount seemed to go up.
    It took me a long time to realise that I wasnt helping him and he had to realise how deep he was getting. He eventually stole from his father and at that point I realised that I had to get out.

    Not everyone is like that, some people will realise that they want to change & will be mortified when they wake up realise what they are doing to the ones that love them - and they supposedly love.

    My ex was from the other camp - carried on spending even after we split up and then started borrowing from some real heavy characters who didnt understand the I'll pay you next week line - but did quite like the fists and boots angle.

    Only you know your fiance and how much he wants to help himself before you can help him. You've got much soul searching to come but make sure its the right decision for you because that has to be the most important thing.

    Good luck and big hugs
    Finally got the house we' ve worked so hard to get......now it's a life of diy and no money....couldn't be happier
    • DarkConvict
    • By DarkConvict 2nd Jul 10, 12:07 AM
    • 6,248 Posts
    • 3,056 Thanks
    DarkConvict
    If you bail them out they will not learn, I think for both your sakes you need to consider some time apart.
    Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.

    There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies
  • alainax
    **hugs**

    Its so hard, but you have to decided if you will ever trust him again, without trust, there is no relationship.

    Ive bailed an ex out before, ended up with solicitors involved to sort it all out... dont do it.

    Imagine a happier life without this stress, with a partner you love more than anything, who you trust with your life, and has no debts...ive found my mr right now, but learned the hard way.

    Im sorry these arent the words you are looking to hear, but if he is willing to steal from the one he loves.. id get rid of him asap!
  • Fang
    To quote the great philosophers of our time Lady Gaga and Beyonce: "Trust is like a mirror. You can fix it if it's broken, but you will still see the crack in that mother !!!!er's reflection."

    I feel it's appropriate.
    • redlady_1
    • By redlady_1 2nd Jul 10, 7:12 AM
    • 1,552 Posts
    • 13,767 Thanks
    redlady_1
    Well most people here think that a partner should be understanding to hiding debt. The taking something of yours is just another extention of desperation as far as I can see - and yes, I think its wrong. But then I think its wrong to lie about anything in a relationship that is of such magnitude it affects your partner. Personally, for me, the trust would be gone. I would not be able to forgive someone. It isnt about the debt as much as the lies. Once trust has gone there is no relationship and I would never trust them not to run up debt again or whether any of my possessions had been taken. I wouldnt be willing to spend my life wondering and turning so paranoid about it happening again that I would be checking up on them every 5 mins. Thats no way to live your life.

    You need to remember you are not responsible for his actions. They are his choices.

    Ok, everyone is different and yes, some people may change and it may make their marriage stronger and good on them for forgiving. I am not one of them capable of doing so. You know deep down what you need to do, you really do, whether its to stick it out of leave. My advice, take time out. Good luck in whatever you decide.

    I will now prepare myself for the flaming I am likely to get for this opinion.
    • RobertoMoir
    • By RobertoMoir 2nd Jul 10, 8:00 AM
    • 3,374 Posts
    • 4,103 Thanks
    RobertoMoir
    thank you for your reply, the wedding is already postponed. I havent cancelled anything yet (can't bear to tell the vicar althouhg I have asked her if she is available for a chat)

    All I can think is of him being made homeless and ending up on the streets because I won't take him in. At the end of the day he hasn't murdered anyone, raped anyone, interfered with children or hurt animals.

    but it's still pretty serious
    Originally posted by little_h
    He might not have done those other things, but he has stole from you and lied to you. The fact that he hasn't also killed, etc, doesn't excuse that any more than saying "well actually he did kill someone, but at least he didn't dance on the pieces afterwards" would excuse that.

    I can understand getting into debt. I can understand hiding that, but if I were in your place that relationship would be over round about the time he stole a family heirloom. The fact that he's prepared to do that speaks volumes.
    If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything
  • Judith_W
    Don't get too strung up about him ending up on the streets - there are charities that can help him - even if he doesn't like it. Short-term shelters and longer term accomodation. Shelter are a great organisation for advice on that sort of thing so don't get guilted into taking him back if that is what he says will happen.

    I do agree that stealing from you may be an extension of his desperation and I think for you, it may be a question of whether you feel he was truly remorseful when you confronted him about it or if you can't trust him not to do something like that again.

    Simply having undisclosed debts is not necessarily a reason for leaving him, other couples have become much closer as a result of finally being on the same page and working together to get straight - it is whether his personality in all its glory is now something you feel you can work with.

    I agree time apart for a bit may be the best thing - only you know how far your love for him can carry you.
    Last edited by Judith_W; 02-07-2010 at 8:32 AM. Reason: typo
  • DVardysShadow
    The fact that you still 'love him' after stealing and lies is a reflection of your maternal caring side. It is not a reflection of your partnering side. Your feelings are misplaced - you deserve a partner, but if you continue this relationship you will only gain a dependent.

    That is as clear as I can make it.
    • d3mon4ngel
    • By d3mon4ngel 2nd Jul 10, 10:06 AM
    • 366 Posts
    • 1,128 Thanks
    d3mon4ngel
    Hi there,

    Firstly, (( HUGS ))

    Secondly, please don't make the same mistake I did. Don't marry this guy thinking it will change and get better, because it won't. It will just make it harder to leave and be done with it when you wake up and realise the truth.

    Ask yourself if you really, truely, deep down can trust him again. This isn't about just lying about debts, this is about him lying about it then stealing from you with no thought for your feelings. Only you can answer the question, and only you can decide if you think he is worth sticking with.

    And some advice from experience, if everyone around you (friends, family, etc) have reservations about him or his behaviour, then please please listen to them, because they can see what's happening from the outside and they care about you.

    I do apologise if I've sounded harsh or judgemental. I didn't mean to, it just kind of hit a nerve
    ::: Total Paid Since LBM (27/05/10): 4639.85 Official Debt Gone!! :::
    That money talks, I don't deny, I heard it once, it said "Goodbye"
    ~ VSP2011: #104 ~
  • little_h
    Thank you so much everyone for your replies, it has helped me enormously. It was difficult to post because I didn't want anyone to read it and not feel they could tell their partner they were hiding some debt!

    The quote about the mirror is one I shall carry with me, thanks!

    And also the comment about still loving him being my maternal caring side, rather than a partnering side, has struck a chord too.

    The first few days are always the worst! I have been away for a few days with family and he has gone to his parents.

    I asked him to not be here when I got back and I gather he has sorted out a debt counsellor and is looking for somewhere else to live. he knows I can't bear to look at him never mind talk to him, so he is coming to get some stuff while I am out on Saturday afternoon. There is nothing of value in the house for him to take, and I will make sure I take all documents and keys to things of any value with me.

    In lots of ways this has been a big kick up the bum for me to get my focus back on sorting my debts out, I have found the lack of financial flexibility very hard the last few days as I have some bills to pay over the next couple of months which his income would have helped with.

    BUT on a positive note, I haven't gone on a big shopping splurge, and I haven't put a single thing on my credit card! How good is that!

    Thanks again
    9,742 Virgin card (mixture of 6.9% life of balance, rest 0%)
    3,925 Mint card (0%)
    4,181 Bank of Scotland card (0%)
    850 overdraft
    8,720 on my car loan (8.9%, 39 months to go)
    Total... 27,418
    • jammother
    • By jammother 2nd Jul 10, 10:31 AM
    • 58 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    jammother
    My experience
    I can only give you the story of my experience of a partner amassing huge debts. We had been together for four years and my OH was always short of money, borrowing from me and then saying he would pay it back from a savings account and yet it never happened. He then told me that his bank account had been compromised and his student loan had been stolen and would I put all the rent and bills in my name until he had his account sorted out (he claimed it was frozen). When he graduated the next year and got a job, he told me that his wages were on hold in the account. So I was paying for everything on a PhD stipend and soon had to take out loans and credit cards to support us. You could argue that I was naive and too trusting but I loved him and wanted to believe him. Eventually enough was enough and I said I was phoning the bank to demand a refund of all his money but he told me that if I loved him I would trust him (emotional blackmail much?). This held me back for a couple of days. He went out for a walk and came back to tell me that he had a gambling problem and the debts that I had amassed to support him (50k) - he would be unable to pay me back because he had spent all his wages and the saving account on scratchcards.

    Obviously I was angry and he offered to leave. But I said that we would try to work through it but we had to do things my way. We went to Gamblers Anonymous for a year and all his wages were paid into my account and I handled all the repayments (with a little help from the in-laws). And it was rough and we argued and cried - his parents made us get married as soon as possible in order to receive their financial help (see where the emotional blackmail comes from?). I told my OH that if he ever gambled again I would leave him and never come back.

    We have now been married for three years and our little boy was born two months ago. We are very happy and the trust issues are mainly in the past. And I'm not some bleeding heart sap - I come from a background of abuse and so loss of trust for me is the worse things anyone can do. But my OH showed remorse and has worked really hard to prove himself to me. So it can be done but your partner has to be fully committed to spending every day of the next few years making it up to you.

    If it is a gambling problem then it is an addiction but one you can break. Best of luck
  • little_h
    wow jammother that is a hell of a story, sounds like you have been through a terrible time but I am pleased you have both come out of it.

    I think I need to take some time to think this through. He wants to come home becuase it will help both of us, he will have somewhere to live and I will have someone to help with the bills.

    I thought about him staying as basically a lodger and asking him to formally help in the house with things like gardening/DIY and I would pay him to do this and any other chores, to help him reduce his debt (I was going to get a gardener anyway as my garden is too much for me on my own)

    My mum hit the roof though (and I'm not a nipper either, I'm 31!). She has suggested he does things on his own for a bit and once I am really sure that he is doing things for himself and standing on his own two feet, then I can think about things again.

    I can see both sides but I miss him. I know how flakey this sounds, again I'm not a Jeremy kyle case I'm an intelligent woman who is financially independent with a good career. I should know better!
    9,742 Virgin card (mixture of 6.9% life of balance, rest 0%)
    3,925 Mint card (0%)
    4,181 Bank of Scotland card (0%)
    850 overdraft
    8,720 on my car loan (8.9%, 39 months to go)
    Total... 27,418
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