dads g/f wont give us his stuff

Holeypockets

This HAS to be a troll or a WUM. If not then I am so thankful that I have never come across anyone as low as this in my life. Hopefully I never will either.

meester

margaretclare wrote: »

I am sad about all this. I shudder to think what will happen to our beloved country in years to come if this really is a widespread state of affairs.

The 'functional illiteracy, which some interpreted as text-speak, came over to me like some kind of patois as might be spoken in New Orleans.

Yes, I can speak and write English, which chickadee noted. Do you know how that came about? I lived in a very poor home and was mainly brought up by my aunt, who was a polio survivor and lived most of her life sitting on the floor, from where she did everything. My mother was out at work cleaning other women's houses. My aunt used to read to me, the few books we had were read over and over again, and that was how I learned to read. Once I could read I was in a different world, that of the imagination, other peoples, other times. I absorbed my own language by reading anything and everything I could get my hands on. Even now, I have the type of mind that will read the back of a cereal packet if there's nothing else in sight. Reading and writing English was different from the dialect we spoke at home, but I never wrote in that dialect. My difficulties at school were related to figures, which didn't make sense to me in the way that words did. Words were a way out - an escape if you like.

I tend to agree with your sentiments. My wife (who, as I, probably a generation younger than you) comes from a poorer background than yours (yes really, we are talking about $1/day family income in Asia), but that makes her more determined about our children's education than even I am (though she did not have access to a good education herself).

Her attitudes are what the Left in this country patronisingly diminish as 'middle class' (i.e. wanting your children to succeed, to have respect for others and society, to possess Christian values, and to be well-regarded by ones peers), yet her childhood was impoverished. The society she comes from would not comprehend the existence of the chav mentality. It is utterly alien, whereas the essential values and morality of humanity are universal.

The foolish left-wing commentators blame the attitudes of the OP on 'poverty' and 'deprivation', yet real poverty, of the kind experienced by billions of people across the world, does not engender this attitude at all. Real poverty brought us the likes of George Stephenson who paid to teach himself to read while working in a colliery, then travelled a hundred miles on foot to get himself a job to support his family, before going on to build and design his magnificent machines, and indeed poverty is that from which, in the space of two or three generations, the modern 'middle class' has emerged (in modern times, of course, such social mobility has largely ended).

Of course poverty is not a pleasant state to be in, and it is something that we should aim to reduce. But the real poverty in Britain is not financial, it is a poverty of ambition, poverty of effort, and poverty of decency (I recall the utter respect for ones elders I experienced in Indonesia: there, children would give up their seats automatically to ANY adult, and the spectacle of children routinely boarding buses and abusing the drivers is not one you would EVER witness). As you note, it's hard to see any trend of improvement. Politicians can spout off all they wish about 'respect agendas', but its absence so fundamental and entrenched it is hard to see how improvements will ever occur. Britain lives in a 'rights-centred' society - with the emphasis on 'rights', which are an entirely individualistic concept all about 'me, me and me' (my right to an education, to housing, to benefits, to my father's money, etc.), and none on the 'society' part of the equation.

Holeypockets

I agree that 'text speak' is a bane on our society. I have 2 children - both young teenagers. I try to educate them to speak and write correctly and closely monitor how they are doing at school. Then 'text speak' comes along and undoes all the good work.

Curv

meester wrote: »

Britain lives in a 'rights-centred' society - with the emphasis on 'rights', which are an entirely individualistic concept all about 'me, me and me' (my right to an education, to housing, to benefits, to my father's money, etc.), and none on the 'society' part of the equation.

:T
I couldn't agree more. And with rights come responsibilities - it's that part of the equation which seems to be sadly lacking in the education of so many people.

margaretclare

I agree with meester. I think we have lost a lot over the years, with the emphasis on 'what can I claim, what am I entitled to'. Attempts have been made to eradicate poverty, but as meester says, what we have is poverty in so many other ways. You can increase child benefit and child tax allowances all you like, but it isn't tackling the problem in a way that will succeed, because there will always be more 'wants' once immediate basic 'needs' are satisfied. Look at the way the OP talks about her father getting her a council house but 'setting her up to fail', whatever she means by that. My eldest granddaughter, from homelessness and unemployment, was absolutely delighted when she was allocated a council flat. Her joy and pleasure in that little flat are wonderful to see. From that base, she got the 'job of her dreams' and I'm sure she won't look back.

There used to be something called the 'respectable working class', and that was the class that Stephenson sprang from, as meester describes. Those people had pride. They were poor, but they said 'there was no need to look poor'. So they took pride in being clean and tidy and they even scrubbed their front doorsteps. My grandparents, who had very little themselves, started me on the savings habit from day one at the village school. They knew you need to have 'something behind you' for when the unexpected happens, and that idea will never go out of fashion.

Illegitimate children were born in those days, of course they were, and I'd hate to return to the punitive attitude that my mother and I endured. But do you know what? A lot of those illegitimate births were not the woman's fault. When a young woman went to live in someone else's house as a servant, she was very vulnerable. Nowadays we'd call it sexual harassment at work. They didn't have such words, and neither did they have contraception.

On the other hand, it has happened in the last 2 or 3 decades that the industries men like Stephenson worked in have disappeared, and we now have 2 or 3 generations of so-called 'working class' families in which no one has ever worked. Someone referred to Karen Matthews. That's the kind of world women like her live in.

Errata

There has always been, and will always be, a class of society that the rest of society looks down on - it's the one at the bottom of the heap. It may do different 'bad' things but they will always be seen as bad by those who feel their value system and world view is the superior one.
Discussion about the 'respectable' working class is fraught with hazard - who decides what's respectable and what isn't? It also carries undertones of the 'deserving' poor and the undeserving poor. Again, who decides ?
Hogarth's Gin Lane was an accurate depiction of what was happening in those days, a third of all Victorian brides went to the altar pregnant, people's houses were looted by their neighbours in WW2.
There never was a golden age, but perhaps we are more aware of how people conduct themselves today through a very widespread and fast moving media.

seven-day-weekend

ForDad wrote: »

everione is bein all simpathetic to her coz they was gettin married an sez we iz just bein greedy coz i hadnt seen him in 2 yers.im like so wot he still ma dad. she gev ma sista a gold ring of hiz an its not fare coz it should hav gone to me im the oldest so now ma sista isnt spekin to me coz of that. why shood his g/f get everithin.

Maybe he left it to her in his will?

Incisor

ForDad wrote: »

... she wont talk to us cause my brother took a video of dad dead in hospital to show mum and dad hated mum. not that bothered about pics as wasnt close to him we dont believe she should have that house.

Could you put that video up on Youtube please? tbh, I'm surprised you have not put up a link yet, but then, I see you are not all that bovverd about pics [why do you write 'bothered' and not 'bovverd'?]

liney

What would you do with your dad's wedding ring? Pawn it? If i was your sister i wouldn't be talking to you either. Just think, your father didn't want you to have the ring anyway, it was his girlfriend who kindly retreived it from the bin. If you really want something of your father's then it sounds like there are a few unpaid bills you can go and pay on his behalf.

As for your last post about your children, are you trying to say it's your fathers fault you got pregnant at 15? Then after he took care of your children for you; the council gave you a house; and (good grief) he expected to you look after your own children so they have been taken into care? Do forgive me if my interpretation is wrong, but what exactly does that have to do with the price of eggs? You are old enough to support yourself, and be responsible for your own actions. While you behave like this people will think you shouldn't be left alone with a boiling kettle, never mind children.

beer_tins

cake21 wrote: »

Isn't it that the person inheriting either accepts the estate (i.e. including the debt, whether or not the estate has enough assets to cover it) or they don't, in which case if the estate doesn't cover it then the remaining debts are written off?

That would make you both correct

You may well be right about that. I can live with being half right