TV Licence article Discussion

Nick_C

nickcc said:

Just read that anyone over 75 not owning a TV licence will not be prosecuted even if they need a licence.

Do you have a source for that? 

Watchkeeper

Over-75s have been promised a grace period. TV Licensing says those who have previously held a free licence should not be fined or prosecuted. 

It says it has also suspended all house visits from agents during lockdown. Yet despite these assurances, there has been widespread criticism over the heavy-handed tactics being used to force pensioners to pay up.

https://!!!!!!.com/3unpt3dv

Weasel words. It says nothing about those who recently reached 75, only those who previously had a free licence.

2010

Nick_C said:

2010 said:

Nick-C,
I read your very useful post from last Sept. about cancelling the licence.
You ended your post saying that they sent you a letter "to the occupier"
I just wondered if you have heard anymore from them?

I did try to reply to your PM but it didn't seem to work!

Got a letter addressed to The Occupier confirming that they had been told a licence was not needed. Have heard nothing since. Think they might have said they will check back with me after three years. 

Thanks Nick-C,
I had trouble with the PM and wasn`t sure if it actually was sent.

bevcoffee

I have never watched live TV in my life and I'm now 76. My Parents never bought a TV and my siblings enjoyed normal family relationships. I always considered TV to be a Home Life Destroyer for lazy families. I brought up 2 children without ever having a TV at home. We found it totally unnecessary. We ate at the Dining Table every meal and did family things to keep our minds active and our relationships enjoyable. We even got to know each other thoroughly during the years before University and a little beyond.

My question is this. Over the years, since first owning a Laptop, over 20 years ago, I have enjoyed what YouTube offers to those who do not need a Television at home. My favourie YouTube viewing is LiveCam wildlife like Watching Birds laying Eggs and rearing the chicks over many months. Now, I have read the TV Licencing Web Site and it tells me I must buy a TV Licence to watch transmissions which are being transmitted live, even from the other side of the World. Does anyone know if TV Licencing have a right to charge me a fee for watching Nature LiveCams of wildlife?

pphillips

bevcoffee said:

I have never watched live TV in my life and I'm now 76. My Parents never bought a TV and my siblings enjoyed normal family relationships. I always considered TV to be a Home Life Destroyer for lazy families. I brought up 2 children without ever having a TV at home. We found it totally unnecessary. We ate at the Dining Table every meal and did family things to keep our minds active and our relationships enjoyable. We even got to know each other thoroughly during the years before University and a little beyond.

My question is this. Over the years, since first owning a Laptop, over 20 years ago, I have enjoyed what YouTube offers to those who do not need a Television at home. My favourie YouTube viewing is LiveCam wildlife like Watching Birds laying Eggs and rearing the chicks over many months. Now, I have read the TV Licencing Web Site and it tells me I must buy a TV Licence to watch transmissions which are being transmitted live, even from the other side of the World. Does anyone know if TV Licencing have a right to charge me a fee for watching Nature LiveCams of wildlife?

The information on the TV Licencing website is incorrect, the TV licence is intended to cover the live broadcast of a TV channel regardless of the means by which it is transmitted or viewed.
A list of TV channels can be found on Ofcom's website here: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/manage-your-licence/tv-broadcast-licences/current-licensees

Watchkeeper

Meaning of “television receiver” 9.—(1) In Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), “television receiver” means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other purpose. (2) In this regulation, any reference to receiving a television programme service includes a reference to receiving by any means any programme included in that service, where that programme is received at the same time (or virtually the same time) as it is received by members of the public by virtue of its being broadcast or distributed as part of that service.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/692/regulation/9/made

A live WebCam does not constitute "a television programme service", nor does the feed from the WebCam constitute a "programme". In essence it's a surveillance camera so you're OK.

zalek

A quick question. My partner and I, we have realised we do not really watch any live TV - a year ago we gave up Sky subscription for that reason. If we do watch anything, it's streaming services like Netflix and such. Our TV license has just expired and we decided to take that opportunity and not to renew it.

My questions is as follow - what do I need to do to prove that we do not watch live TV? I mean do I need to dismantle our satellite dish? Cut the cable? I don't want any trouble when someone decides to visit to check on us (however rare chance that could be).

Any advice from people who have actually experienced the visit or know for fact what must be done re 'proving' you are innocent?

Thanks

Cornucopia

zalek said:

....My questions is as follow - what do I need to do to prove that we do not watch live TV? I mean do I need to dismantle our satellite dish? Cut the cable? I don't want any trouble when someone decides to visit to check on us (however rare chance that could be).

Any advice from people who have actually experienced the visit or know for fact what must be done re 'proving' you are innocent?

Thanks

These questions are the basis of why TV Licence enforcement is so controversial.

We don't generally have areas of law where members of the Public are required to prove their innocence in the absence of at least a prior reasonable degree of suspicion of an offence.   There's also the practical issue of even trying to prove the negative that no offence is taking place now, or in the past, or will take place in the future.   The whole thing is ridiculous and doubly so because the BBC operates TV Licensing in the face of those quite substantial constraints.

In answer to your specific questions:-

- You do not need to dismantle an unused satellite dish or external TV aerial.  Having these things is not relevant to the offence.

- Although TV Licensing are unlikely to enter your home in the foreseeable future, you can cut the satellite cable inside the house, or coil it up and secure it with tape so that it is beyond use.  Also put the Sky box away so that it cannot be used.   (Use another device for access to Netflix etc.)

- You do not normally have to respond to TV Licensing on your doorstep AT ALL.   You can ignore them entirely, or you can answer the door and immediately ask them to leave, say "not today, thankyou", etc.   I'd definitely recommend this, and in any case the decision to let them in to your home is yours (no matter what they may say) and there's no good reason to allow them in.

- You can head off the prospect of them "visiting" by using a legal strategy against them, such as asserting your PACE rights in advance, assuming that you live in England or Wales. 

cw18

zalek said:

My questions is as follow - what do I need to do to prove that we do not watch live TV? I mean do I need to dismantle our satellite dish? Cut the cable? I don't want any trouble when someone decides to visit to check on us (however rare chance that could be).

Any advice from people who have actually experienced the visit or know for fact what must be done re 'proving' you are innocent?

Thanks

I wasn't home when they came calling.  They left a card sayng they'd be back, but they haven't.  (Visit was long before the pandemic hit, so it's doubtful that Covid is the reason they've not been back.)   I've been licence free for 10 years, but filled in the declaration to cover the first 7 of those (I had to fill in several forms in the first 12 months as I replaced my main TV - and then had to take it back for a refund as it was faulty, so I then bought another.  And at the time they still got notified when people bought them).  I think the visit was just before I stopped filling in the declarations, but it's that long ago I can't be 100% sure.

I don't have a satellite dish here, but what I did was....

make the signal from my terrestrial aerial useless by disconnecting all cables from the booster box in my loft.   Without the booster box in action the signal is full of 'snow' even if the device was tuned properly before it was disconnected (aerial is also in my loft space, so I don't even have one of those visible from outside)

disconnect all my TVs (and my DVD player, which has a built in freeview box with hard disk to record shows because it was purchased when I did have a licence) from aerial sockets in the devices and the walls, and put the cables well away (I'd struggle to find them now even if I wanted to use them again!)

retune my devices after disconnecting them, so they then found no channels.  this means that if I plugged a device to the wall with a cable it still wouldn't find any channels without being tuned first

However, none of that stops me from being able to watch channels over the internet on a number of devices (I have an older smart TV with Roku box, a standard TV connected to a Roku box, a laptop, a tablet and an android phone that can all do so).   I can't think of any way of proving I don't access them that way, but because I don't I'm quite happy that they won't be able to prove (with hard evidence) that I do.

But I have no intention of letting anyone in if they come calling without a warrant.  As such it makes what I've done pretty redundant unless they do get a warrant (very, very unlikely).

Monkeyboy2019

So I cancelled my TV licence about a month ago and explained to them why I was cancelling. Basically, don't watch anything on BBC, whether live or an iPlayer. Nor do I watch any other channels live. In fact, I've unplugged my aerial and turned off the booster in the roof, so can't even receive a signal. Yesterday, I got a threatening letter from the TV licence folk about me not paying my licence and that I could be fined etc. etc.

What happens now? Just ignore it?