TV Licence article Discussion

Cornucopia

_vexorg_ said:

Have the rules changed?

This page, www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one , seems to say you need a licence for all channels and even the online video services now, like catchup services, and youtube and amazon

No, the rules haven't changed, and if you know how to read TV Licensing's ambiguous wording, it still says what it always did.

The issue is their use of the word "live", which in their minds means "scheduled broadcast TV programs from licensed TV channels".   I suppose "live" is shorter, but it is also ambiguous and confusing.   It also fails in the wrong direction for TVL - people might think you only need a Licence to watch live events, which is not the case.  

If you read their words with that definition in mind, it makes more sense.  

You need a Licence:-

- to watch/record scheduled TV broadcasts received by traditional means.

- to stream those same channels in real-time.

- to view/download BBC TV programs from iPlayer.

FreeBear

_vexorg_ said: Have the rules changed?

This page, www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one , seems to say you need a licence for all channels and even the online video services now, like catchup services, and youtube and amazon

No, the rules have not changed. The weasel words from TVL "watch or stream programmes live on an online TV service " just means any live, scheduled programming such as (for example) a football match as it is being played. Anything that is "on demand" (Netflix, etc) or catch-up (All 4, ITV Hub, etc) does not require a licence. The only catch-up service that does is BBC iPlayer.

cw18

_vexorg_    No, the rules haven't changed since they moved iPlayer into the requirements list.

I suspect you're looking at the second point, which says

watch or stream programmes live on an online TV service (such as ITV Hub, All 4, YouTube, Amazon Prime Video, Now TV, Sky Go, etc.)

but the key thing there is the use of the word LIVE.   Most (if not all) of the apps now also have access to the live stream, which they didn't used to.   You can still use them WITHOUT a licence, as long as you stay out of the Live area.

_vexorg_

Thanks all, that's clear. Looks like my daughter doesn't need one, young people dont seem to watch TV anymore.

It's a bit confusing that you cant watch a +1 channel, or off a sky planner if you recorded it, but you can watch it on demand. It's on virgin setup for the broadband, and Tivo box is thrown in as part of the package. But it all comes out the one cable if live, recorded or on demand....

pphillips

_vexorg_ said:

Thanks all, that's clear. Looks like my daughter doesn't need one, young people dont seem to watch TV anymore.

It's a bit confusing that you cant watch a +1 channel, or off a sky planner if you recorded it, but you can watch it on demand. It's on virgin setup for the broadband, and Tivo box is thrown in as part of the package. But it all comes out the one cable if live, recorded or on demand....

You can watch content on demand (except via BBC iPlayer) simply because the legislation says you can. However, do be careful to ensure that this is the only use or purpose of your equipment.

Cornucopia

pphillips said:

You can watch content on demand (except via BBC iPlayer) simply because the legislation says you can. However, do be careful to ensure that this is the only use or purpose of your equipment.

The wording around "use" and "purpose" in the legislation is a positive part of the requirement for a Licence.   

The legal requirement for being Legally Licence Free is just to not receive scheduled TV broadcasts and not to use BBC iPlayer to access BBC TV content.   

There's no legal stipulation for the type or configuration of LLF equipment, as such. 

What we do have is two practical concerns:-

- one about presenting the best possible configuration for the benefit of any TV Licensing "callers" (who you unwisely or under legal duress admit to your home).

- one about other members of the household using the equipment in any illegal way (without a Licence), possibly accidentally.

FreeBear

Cornucopia said: What we do have is two practical concerns:-

- one about presenting the best possible configuration for the benefit on any TV Licensing "callers".

The only time a TVL "caller" has a right to look at any equipment is when they have a valid search warrant in their hand. No warrant, no entry. Even with a search warrant, you are under no obligation to assist them (by turning equipment on or logging in to a device).

One problem I have is with a Now TV set top box - There doesn't appear to be any way to permanently delete the iPlayer app, so it always appears on the main screen. It would help if the BBC used a specific IP address for any/all iPlayer content so I could block it at the router level, but for them to publish the information would make it too easy for the LLF community.

Cornucopia

FreeBear said:

The only time a TVL "caller" has a right to look at any equipment is when they have a valid search warrant in their hand. No warrant, no entry. Even with a search warrant, you are under no obligation to assist them (by turning equipment on or logging in to a device).

Yes - fair point, I have amended my wording accordingly. 

FreeBear said:

One problem I have is with a Now TV set top box - There doesn't appear to be any way to permanently delete the iPlayer app, so it always appears on the main screen. It would help if the BBC used a specific IP address for any/all iPlayer content so I could block it at the router level, but for them to publish the information would make it too easy for the LLF community.

One of the reasons why I have become fairly relaxed about device configuration issues is because iPlayer now requires a BBC ID to login.   So if you have no BBC ID, then the App is redundant.  

On my Now TV box, you can delete iPlayer within the MyApps section.   This means that it doesn't then appear either on the MyApps section or the summary on the Home Page.

There is a content list for iPlayer on the Home Page which still shows, but if you select anything from it, the first thing it does is prompt you to install the app.   For me, having 2 barriers to usage (requiring the App and then requiring an ID) is more than enough.

cw18

My Smart TV has the iPlayer app which can't be deleted.   Many of the other Apps that were on when I bought it have self-deleted as updates have rendered them unusable on my TV (it's too old to support them), but still iPlayer hangs on.......

However my TV itself doesn't have a WiFi connection, and as I now use a Roku Box (due to the number of Apps my TV will no longer run) I no longer have an ethernet cable running to my TV.   That means the App on the TV doesn't work anyway   And I don't have the iPlayer app installed on my Roku box.

I used to have iPlayer blocked at my router, but either my newer routers are having hissy-fits at me or the BBC have changed things as I can no longer do so.    But I don't have many visitors, and those I do have all know I don't have a licence.    So I'm not concerned about anyone accessing it on a personal device when they shouldn't (ie. when their device is plugged into the mains, meaning they're not covered by their own licence).

pphillips

Cornucopia said:

pphillips said:

You can watch content on demand (except via BBC iPlayer) simply because the legislation says you can. However, do be careful to ensure that this is the only use or purpose of your equipment.

The legal requirement for being Legally Licence Free is just to not receive scheduled TV broadcasts and not to use BBC iPlayer to access BBC TV content.   

The legal requirement for being Legally Licence Free can be interpreted in light of section 363 of the Communications Act 2003, which reads as follows:

"(1)A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence under this Part.

(2)A person who installs or uses a television receiver in contravention of subsection (1) is guilty of an offence.

(3)A person with a television receiver in his possession or under his control who—

(a)intends to install or use it in contravention of subsection (1), or

(b)knows, or has reasonable grounds for believing, that another person intends to install or use it in contravention of that subsection,

is guilty of an offence."

As you see, it's not quite as simple as the interpretation you have provided. What it is saying is that you can't be legally licence free unless:

You don't receive scheduled TV broadcasts or use BBC iPlayer.

AND

You don't intend to receive scheduled TV broadcasts or use BBC iPlayer on your equipment.

AND

You don't know or suspect that another person intends to receive scheduled TV broadcasts or use BBC iPlayer on your equipment.