TV Licence article Discussion

Cornucopia

buglawton said:

In theory that means watching someone live streaming needs a licence. Well they do say that the law is an *** (a donkey).
I'm even wondering now if dialling into the video stream of a corporate event by my employer requires a license. In which case it should be a tax deductible expense.

No.   

The reason why anna-oyed is asking about OFCOM licensed broadcasters is because of a more detailed discussion on "her" thread, here:   https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6185697/clarification-regarding-tv-licence-requirement#latest

The reason why it is relevant is because the law specifies that a Licence is required for reception of "programme services", which equates to linear TV channels run by actual broadcasters.    That link at OFCOM is a list of such programme services.   

There is undoubtedly some asinine law in play, but this isn't it.   The only mystery is why official bodies eschew my excellent definition (see the other thread) of the requirement in favour of their own much more confusing efforts.    

The Licence Fee topic is only going to heat up over the coming months - perhaps we can be of maximum help to people by getting the facts right?

timgallon

Hello, I am sure the answer to the following question might be in this thread somewhere so apologies if my questions have come up before.

I pay my Licence on an annual basis and this is due to expire soon.

For a variety of reasons I do not want to renew my Licence. I will continue to watch TV via my Netflix, Now TV and Amazon subscriptions.

I know I don’t have to do anything more once the Licence lapses, but in people’s opinion is it worth sending TVL a No Licence Needed declaration?

When the Licence expires all am intending to do with my TV’s is remove the aerial leads and put them in the garage.  Do folk think this is sufficient to remove the threat of a prosecution if the TVL people come to my property with a warrant, as I do not intend to engage with them if they coming knocking on my door without one?

Thanks

TG

Cornucopia

timgallon said:

Hello, I am sure the answer to the following question might be in this thread somewhere so apologies if my questions have come up before.

I pay my Licence on an annual basis and this is due to expire soon.

For a variety of reasons I do not want to renew my Licence. I will continue to watch TV via my Netflix, Now TV and Amazon subscriptions.

I know I don’t have to do anything more once the Licence lapses, but in people’s opinion is it worth sending TVL a No Licence Needed declaration?

It's entirely up to you.    If you fill in their form, then in theory they stop sending enforcement letters.   Other than that the advantages and disadvantages are marginal.

timgallon said:

When the Licence expires all am intending to do with my TV’s is remove the aerial leads and put them in the garage.  Do folk think this is sufficient to remove the threat of a prosecution if the TVL people come to my property with a warrant, as I do not intend to engage with them if they coming knocking on my door without one?

That should be fine.   TVL won't have a warrant - they are extremely rare.   

Pianist52

I looked through the list of Ofcom regulated sites and couldn't find the one I've used. It's TVmucho. You can get a free account when abroad and it gives one hour free viewing per day. If I don't have a licence in the future here at home, would this still be legal when abroad? Thanks.

cw18

Pianist52 said:

I looked through the list of Ofcom regulated sites and couldn't find the one I've used. It's TVmucho. You can get a free account when abroad and it gives one hour free viewing per day. If I don't have a licence in the future here at home, would this still be legal when abroad? Thanks.

Will you only be watching this when abroad?   You don't need a TV Licence here in the UK in order to watch live TV whilst visiting other countries.

Nick_C

timgallon said:

... but in people’s opinion is it worth sending TVL a No Licence Needed declaration?

I don't think TVLs declaration form is fit for purpose.

The declarations;
1 - "I don't watch or record programmes as they're being shown on TV" - but I do.  At my brother's.  At the pub (when it re-opens).  In the waiting room at the car dealership when I'm there for a service.  In hotels.  etc etc.  

2 - "I don't watch or record programmes from abroad as they're being shown on TV or live on an online TV service."  Again, I do.  I watch Sky News live when I'm on holiday abroad.

"If you cannot confirm all the statements above, you'll need to buy a TV Licence."   Simply not true.  But without giving false answers, I can't complete the form to say I no longer need a TV Licence.

The BBC don't need to know the reason why I don't need a TV license.  What I do legally in my home is my business and no one else's.  But without giving a reason I cannot complete the form.

Plus if you do complete the form, you appear to be agreeing that the BBC have the right to send people round to check up on you.  I don't want to agree to that.  "We may visit the address.  We visit some addresses to check that the occupants do not need a TV Licence"

"Your Declaration can only last up to two years" - Why?  Any declaration I make lasts until I die or rescind it.

I don't want the BBC storing my name, phone number, and email address.  If I'm not a customer, they don't need that data.  

When I got my renewal reminder in mid July, I phoned the call centre as a courtesy to them and told them I would not be renewing.  In answer to their questions, I simply said "From 1 August, I will not be carrying out any activities that would require me to have a TV Licence".

I also sent them an e-form (https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/cs/contact-us/index.app )as follows:-

"I will not be renewing my TV license, which expires at midnight on 31 July.

I will not be carrying out any activity that requires a TV license from 1 August.

As I will no longer be a BBC customer, I assert that you no longer have any need to store my personal data from 1 August.  Please ensure my personal data is deleted from that date.

Please acknowledge this message (before deleting my personal data).

Please note that any further letters from TV Licensing will be discarded unopened.

Please also take note that I am withdrawing any implied right of access to my property to the BBC, its contractors and agents. 

If I ever need a TV license again in the future, I will of course buy one."

They sent me a "No License Needed" confirmation letter about 4 weeks later (addressed to "Mr Occupier").  

Pianist52

Thanks CW18. I thought I knew quite a bit but I never realised out of the country we were safe from BBC's clutches - great news!

timgallon

Nick_C said:

timgallon said:

... but in people’s opinion is it worth sending TVL a No Licence Needed declaration?

I don't think TVLs declaration form is fit for purpose.

The declarations;
1 - "I don't watch or record programmes as they're being shown on TV" - but I do.  At my brother's.  At the pub (when it re-opens).  In the waiting room at the car dealership when I'm there for a service.  In hotels.  etc etc.  

2 - "I don't watch or record programmes from abroad as they're being shown on TV or live on an online TV service."  Again, I do.  I watch Sky News live when I'm on holiday abroad.

"If you cannot confirm all the statements above, you'll need to buy a TV Licence."   Simply not true.  But without giving false answers, I can't complete the form to say I no longer need a TV Licence.

The BBC don't need to know the reason why I don't need a TV license.  What I do legally in my home is my business and no one else's.  But without giving a reason I cannot complete the form.

Plus if you do complete the form, you appear to be agreeing that the BBC have the right to send people round to check up on you.  I don't want to agree to that.  "We may visit the address.  We visit some addresses to check that the occupants do not need a TV Licence"

"Your Declaration can only last up to two years" - Why?  Any declaration I make lasts until I die or rescind it.

I don't want the BBC storing my name, phone number, and email address.  If I'm not a customer, they don't need that data.  

When I got my renewal reminder in mid July, I phoned the call centre as a courtesy to them and told them I would not be renewing.  In answer to their questions, I simply said "From 1 August, I will not be carrying out any activities that would require me to have a TV Licence".

I also sent them an e-form (https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/cs/contact-us/index.app )as follows:-

"I will not be renewing my TV license, which expires at midnight on 31 July.

I will not be carrying out any activity that requires a TV license from 1 August.

As I will no longer be a BBC customer, I assert that you no longer have any need to store my personal data from 1 August.  Please ensure my personal data is deleted from that date.

Please acknowledge this message (before deleting my personal data).

Please note that any further letters from TV Licensing will be discarded unopened.

Please also take note that I am withdrawing any implied right of access to my property to the BBC, its contractors and agents. 

If I ever need a TV license again in the future, I will of course buy one."

They sent me a "No License Needed" confirmation letter about 4 weeks later (addressed to "Mr Occupier").  

Thanks for your reply Nick.  I don't think i'll fill in the form and just see how things pan out.  If they want to send me snotty letters through the post then that's their look out.

wendineill

Hi, I’m planning on cancelling my tv licence as I now know I don’t need one, but I need to double check something not covered elsewhere. My property is part of a block, and has a communal arial in the building. If everyone else has a tv licence will it look like I AM using the connection even though I’m not? I’m thinking about the detector vans sitting outside the building picking up activity on the other’s tv’s on the communal arial? 
ta

FreeBear

wendineill said:  I’m thinking about the detector vans sitting outside the building picking up activity on the other’s tv’s on the communal arial?

Back in the days of valve TVs, it was possible to detect electrical radiation (or noise) that those things kicked out. Modern TVs, especially the flat screen models, emit so little radiation, that they are nigh on impossible to detect. As much of the noise is digital, it is next to impossible to analyse in realtime what the signal is. In short, detector vans in today's age do not work, and I doubt they even exist outside TVL fiction.

Just pull the TV aerial cable out from the wall socket and from the back of the TV. Detune the TV, and ignore any letters coming from TVL - They will send one a month, always with a Darlington return address - I don't even bother to open the ones they send to me.