TV Licence article Discussion

para_23

I believe Paragraph 23 by Money saving expert site quoted below is incorrect info (side note: i can't put exact e-link due to joining e-forum today).

Because according to Communications Act 2003 on which the sub-instrument Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 is reliant upon (side note: i can't put exact e-link due to joining e-forum today), has the apex body Ofcom running all throughout this legislation (side note: it has over 1000 Ofcom mentions).    

The tv channels Ofcom regulates are listed on Ofcom site (side note: i can't put exact e-link due to joining e-forum today)  - Ofcom regulates by charging the tv channels fees. 

Therefore a junior body: Bbc Tv licensing department (aka capita outsourcing company) can only ask for Tv licensing fees if all the viewer watches is online live streaming Ofcom-regulated Tv channels But the Bbc Tv licensing department (aka capita outsourcing company) Cannot / C-a-n-n-o-t ask for Tv licensing fees if all the viewer watches is online live streaming Non-Ofcom Tv channels.

I request M.s.e. / Martin Lewis  to correct this error in Paragraph 23.      

Incorrect Paragraph 23

"Watching live foreign TV in the UK does require a licence

If you watch 'live TV' from a channel that isn't broadcast in the UK (including those picked up via satellite or online), you need to be covered by a valid TV licence.

This is regardless of the country of origin or the language of the broadcast."

(side note: i can't put exact e-link due to joining e-forum today)

Cornucopia

I noted it as incorrect at the point when the last major update was made.

The exact situation AIUI is that a Licence is required to receive any channel that is available in the UK via satellite, cable TV or terrestrial.

A licence is also required to stream any of those channels via concurrent internet streaming.   (And therefore foreign channels that are not otherwise available in the UK via satellite, cable TV or terrestrial do not require a TV Licence to view them).

MSE and other media references are somewhat limited in what they can do on this, though, because TV Licensing themselves provide contrary advice.    

pphillips

Cornucopia said:

I noted it as incorrect at the point when the last major update was made.

The exact situation AIUI is that a Licence is required to receive any channel that is available in the UK via satellite, cable TV or terrestrial.

A licence is also required to stream any of those channels via concurrent internet streaming.   (And therefore foreign channels that are not otherwise available in the UK via satellite, cable TV or terrestrial do not require a TV Licence to view them).

MSE and other media references are somewhat limited in what they can do on this, though, because TV Licensing themselves provide contrary advice.    

The TV Licensing website points to some special power they have in relation to issuing TV licences in the Communications Act 2003. They seem to view this as a sort of Henry VIII power for them to decide when a TV licence is needed. This would explain why they think they can move the goalposts in relation to the meaning of live TV. According  to them, live TV now includes not just foreign TV channels but also anything shown live on social media or YouTube. They seem to have no regard to Ofcom's list of UK broadcast channels, which would provide a clear benchmark and legal certainty. Unfortunately, there don't appear to be any prominent legal voices to provide the public with some definitive interpretation of the legal rules.

Cornucopia

I agree that they seem to think they have "powers", the exact nature and source of which are something of a mystery.   However (1), there is a power within the legislation (S.364) for the BBC to set the Ts & Cs of Licences, and the list of things they may regulate includes some elements relating to the scope of Licensing.  However(2), the overall technical scope of licensing is set in legislation by the government, and the BBC cannot unilaterally change that.

AFAICT, the only significant discrepancy is over foreign live streamed channels that are not available in the UK by traditional reception.   I can see no support in the legislation for TVL's position, and indeed, prior to March 2016 they agreed that a Licence was not required.  

The other things - effectively live video clips that are not structured, licensed or otherwise transmitted as UK TV channels - do not require a Licence, and I am not aware of TVL saying otherwise (beyond their habitually ham-fisted approach to communications with the Public and their misuse of the term "live").

edit:  These are the Ts & Cs of the UK TV Licence:
https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/terms-and-conditions-top11?&WT.mc_id=mec_Search_Brand&gclid=CjwKCAjwsan5BRAOEiwALzomX7NlyMd0ki7iYexroGDg_ko148O39uNWC_whl5b3eNOHHqC7DdCp8BoCI1kQAvD_BwE

ploddo

I’ve obviously missed something. When did we need a license to watch ITV, Channel 5, Channel 4, or anything other than BBC?

cw18

ploddo said:

I’ve obviously missed something. When did we need a license to watch ITV, Channel 5, Channel 4, or anything other than BBC?

Always

Andy_L

ploddo said:

I’ve obviously missed something. When did we need a license to watch ITV, Channel 5, Channel 4, or anything other than BBC?

1955

giraffe69

ploddo said:

I’ve obviously missed something. When did we need a license to watch ITV, Channel 5, Channel 4, or anything other than BBC?

Yes. You have. A long time.
I think 1955 is around the time when we first had two channels. We certainly had a TV soon afterward with no channel selector to which was added a brown box with "1" or "9" on it that you could use to switch between BBC and ITV.

ploddo

giraffe69 said:

ploddo said:

I’ve obviously missed something. When did we need a license to watch ITV, Channel 5, Channel 4, or anything other than BBC?

Yes. You have. A long time.
I think 1955 is around the time when we first had two channels. We certainly had a TV soon afterward with no channel selector to which was added a brown box with "1" or "9" on it that you could use to switch between BBC and ITV.

But you only needed a license for BBC then. (ITV funded itself) 

Andy_L

ploddo said:

giraffe69 said:

ploddo said:

I’ve obviously missed something. When did we need a license to watch ITV, Channel 5, Channel 4, or anything other than BBC?

Yes. You have. A long time.
I think 1955 is around the time when we first had two channels. We certainly had a TV soon afterward with no channel selector to which was added a brown box with "1" or "9" on it that you could use to switch between BBC and ITV.

But you only needed a license for BBC then. (ITV funded itself) 

No. Then, as now, you needed a licence to watch any live broadcast channel.