TV Licence article Discussion

castle96

DON'T PAY IT !! There is almost nothing they can do if you don't answer/implicate yourself. I don't want their signal and won't pay for it. Just cancel your licence 

Cornucopia

castle96 said:

DON'T PAY IT !! There is almost nothing they can do if you don't answer/implicate yourself. I don't want their signal and won't pay for it. Just cancel your licence 

It's worth saying for MSE's sake that TV Licence evasion *is* still a criminal offence.

Watching Licence free, legally, is not that difficult or much of a sacrifice, IMHO. 

para_23

para_23 said:

Things have evolved due to internet and now I believe you can see many English-language live streaming Tv channels from around the world and quite freely if they are not on Ofcom register (in other words they are Non-Ofcom) such as for example Abc Tv (U.s.a.) and Nbc (U.s.a.) whilst you are in the U.k.

YouTube.com is an easy site & has an easy app which also brings to you Non-Ofcom Tv stations' live feeds  where these Tv channel broadcasters themselves are using their YouTube accounts to reach out to English-language understanding audiences.

As long as the live streaming Tv broadcasters you are watching are Not regulated by Ofcom - in other words they are Non-Ofcom and all you watch is live streaming Non-Ofcom Tv channels, then I believe you Do Not have to pay the Bbc Tv licensing (department's aka capita outsourcing company) Tv licence fee.

Here is more evidence -

Ofcom (governing body commission) and Bbc (corporation) have same joint-powers in the enforcement directions under the legislation regarding Tv licensing. Hence Bbc (corporation) powers are limited to the channels Ofcom monitors i.e. the Ofcom-regulated Tv channels and nothing more :

"Communications Act 2003 (c. 21)Part 4 — Licensing of TV reception
366 Powers to enforce TV licensing

.......
(2)A warrant under this section is a warrant authorising any one or more persons authorised for the purpose by the BBC or by OFCOM—(a)to enter  the  premises  or  vehicle  at  any  time  (either  alone  or in  the company of one or more constables); and(b)to search the premises or vehicle and examine and test any television receiver found there.

.......

(5)The powers conferred by a warrant under this section on a person authorised by  OFCOM  are  exercisable  in  relation  only  to  a contravention  or  suspected contravention  of  a  condition  of  a TV  licence  relating  to  interference  with wireless telegraphy.

.......

(6)A person authorised by the BBC, or by OFCOM, to exercise a power conferred by  a  warrant  under  this  section  may  (if  necessary) use  such  force  as  may  be reasonable in the exercise of that power."

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6179150/save-157-50-per-year-in-tv-licensing-fee

RuePlant

Does anybody know what the situation is for watching programmes on video, dvd or onto a hard drive. Is this exempt from Licence Fee. Programmes recorded onto a Hard drive is particular concern but I would have thought its ok to watch as long as they were recorded whilst having a licence fee. Nice to have some clarification, thanks.

Cornucopia

RuePlant said:

Does anybody know what the situation is for watching programmes on video, dvd or onto a hard drive. Is this exempt from Licence Fee. Programmes recorded onto a Hard drive is particular concern but I would have thought its ok to watch as long as they were recorded whilst having a licence fee. Nice to have some clarification, thanks.

The Licence is required to receive TV broadcasts (or use iPlayer), so yes, you would have needed a Licence in the location and at the time that the programs were originally recorded (to whatever medium).    Once you have the recordings, you can view them wherever and whenever you like without requiring a Licence.   You can also move them from one device to another, and/or from one format to another as required.

There may also be copyright issues involved, but that is the situation as far as the TV Licence is concerned.

stragglebod

Cornucopia said:

RuePlant said:

Does anybody know what the situation is for watching programmes on video, dvd or onto a hard drive. Is this exempt from Licence Fee. Programmes recorded onto a Hard drive is particular concern but I would have thought its ok to watch as long as they were recorded whilst having a licence fee. Nice to have some clarification, thanks.

  Once you have the recordings, you can view them wherever and whenever you like without requiring a Licence.
There may also be copyright issues involved, but that is the situation as far as the TV Licence is concerned.

There are indeed. By strict interpretation of the law you can watch a recorded programme once and once only. I expect since home video recorders became available in the 70s you can probably count the number of convictions on the fingers of one hand, assuming you've had an unfortunate accident with a woodchipper.

RuePlant

Thanks, is there some official quote that one can use to back this up. I've looked on TV licencing and there's no mention of programmes that have been recorded off of the TV

Andy_L

RuePlant said:

Thanks, is there some official quote that one can use to back this up. I've looked on TV licencing and there's no mention of programmes that have been recorded off of the TV

 "You don’t need a TV Licence if you only use your TV for gaming or DVDs. That’s as long as you never watch or record live TV on any channel, or download or watch BBC programmes on iPlayer. This applies to any device or provider you use."
https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ15

"You don’t need a TV Licence if you never watch or record programmes as they’re being shown on TV, on any channel, or live on an online TV service, and you never download or watch BBC programmes on iPlayer – live, catch up or on demand."
https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ99

Cornucopia

RuePlant said:

Thanks, is there some official quote that one can use to back this up. 

"Back this up" how?   And to whom?

I think Andy_L's quotes above are the closest you are likely to get from TV Licensing itself.   They aren't really in the business of helping people not to need a Licence.

If you mean backing it up in the eventuality of a visit from TV Licensing, I would strongly recommend not getting into any kind of discussion with them about whether a Licence is required or not.   The doorstep is not the place, and the doorsteppers are not any kind of official arbiter of a correct interpretation of the law.  

buglawton

pphillips said:

Cornucopia said:

I noted it as incorrect at the point when the last major update was made.

The exact situation AIUI is that a Licence is required to receive any channel that is available in the UK via satellite, cable TV or terrestrial.

A licence is also required to stream any of those channels via concurrent internet streaming.   (And therefore foreign channels that are not otherwise available in the UK via satellite, cable TV or terrestrial do not require a TV Licence to view them).

MSE and other media references are somewhat limited in what they can do on this, though, because TV Licensing themselves provide contrary advice.    

The TV Licensing website points to some special power they have in relation to issuing TV licences in the Communications Act 2003. They seem to view this as a sort of Henry VIII power for them to decide when a TV licence is needed. This would explain why they think they can move the goalposts in relation to the meaning of live TV. According  to them, live TV now includes not just foreign TV channels but also anything shown live on social media or YouTube. They seem to have no regard to Ofcom's list of UK broadcast channels, which would provide a clear benchmark and legal certainty. Unfortunately, there don't appear to be any prominent legal voices to provide the public with some definitive interpretation of the legal rules.

My Romanian tenants only ever watch Romanian TV. After they started getting letters about the TV license they messaged me on what's the score. I explained that if they stream live Romanian TV they'll have to pay the BBC and get a TV license, which they did.

So, if an entrepreneur in Romania were to put a 1 hour delay into all the streams and charge £20/year for that service, could my tenants then legally ditch the TV license?