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TV Licence article Discussion

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  • Cornucopia wrote: »
    There are two (and a half) issues -

    - Live pause records the current channel all the time. You could look into what options there might be for controlling this.

    - The box itself is receiving the currently tuned satellite signal and decoding it all the time it is switched on. I think TVL/the Courts would see this as broadcast reception, even if you are not actually watching it.

    - Having a TV subscription and not having a Licence is risky in itself, albeit that it is circumstantial. They have subpoenaed information from Sky for Court before.

    Part of the problem is that "you need a Licence to watch/record TV broadcasts" is a neat and reasonably clear way of expressing it, but it is not quite the same as the wording in the Law, which uses a lot more words and is quite convoluted, spanning information from several different sources.

    The Law talks about installing and using a TV receiver, where a TV receiver is a piece of equipment that is installed or used for the purpose of receiving TV broadcasts. So not only are there elements of installation in the law, but also TVL will present evidence of installation to support charges of use.

    By far the best option is to tailor one's AV setup so that it is clearly installed with the intention that it should not be used for receiving TV broadcasts. (Though I accept that as the technology evolves, the number of devices that could be used to receive live streaming is growing). I had to install a URL block on my router when the BBC decided to remotely upgrade my Youview box to add live streaming (where it previously only had catch-up).

    Yes, and that makes them dangerous and unpredictable.

    I think I will need to look at tailoring the set up if possible or just keeping a TV licence since I now know my set up is not exempt.

    Well I will let the direct debit be collected and wait and see if any summons comes through, and if it does i reckon guilty plea along with the reason I thought I was exempt in hope that the fine will be reflected with this information

    Thanks all for your input guy's as I would have went to court like a raging bull thinking I was in the right lol :money:
  • LeeUK wrote: »
    I've never dealt with a TVL goon as I don't engage conversation with them. However my understanding is even if you sign up with them for direct debit but then cancel/fail to pay, they'll then issue you a summons. But maybe not if the form wasn't signed. Who knows.

    I am gutted I have been told not to let them in but as I thought I was in the right I then welcomed them in with open arms! (they must have rubbed their hands on the way out of my house lol)

    Well, at least I have learnt a possibly costly lesson here as only cancelled the licence a few months back.

    Cheers
  • cw18cw18 Forumite
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    I've been without a licence for almost 5 years, and never had a visit (at least not while I've been home, and that's been most of the time). I'd actually love to have one, as none of the TVs in the house are connected to an aerial and there are no coaxial cables connected to any of the aerial sockets in the walls, Should make it hard for them to imply we watch any live TV :D

    But I have no visible aerial (when I used one it was isnside the loft), no Sky dish, and my entire estate is without cable infrastructure - so at a quick glance my house is incapable of receiving by traditional methods, although I accept there is still the possibility of streaming.

    They were even notified of 3 TV purchases within the first couple of years of me being licence free (third was a replacement for second after I demanded a refund having been given a faulty replacement for a faulty purchase!), but they seem to have been quite happy to accept my declarations that these purchases didn't mean I'd changed my habits and then needed a licence.

    Guess I've been lucky :)



    I still doubt you'll hear anything else. I [strike]know[/strike] knew someone who was caught watching live TV over a cable subscription more than 2 years after moving into his flat - I didn't realise he didn't have a licence, having always assumed everyone who watched TV bought one (he later told me I was just too honest, and should still be watching even though I stopped paying! that's one of the reasons he's a 'knew'). He signed a D/Debit mandate there and then, and never heard anything else from them.
    Cheryl
  • What about ITV+1, Channel4+1 etc.? Is that defined as 'Live' TV or catch up?
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  • cw18cw18 Forumite
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    They count as 'live'
    Cheryl
  • a person I know says that she doesn't pay a TV license as it's not a limited company and therefore she does not need to pay. She says that the licensing people knocked her door and she told them this and they went away - no fine or court case! I think this is Bullshire
  • HappyMJHappyMJ Forumite
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    a person I know says that she doesn't pay a TV license as it's not a limited company and therefore she does not need to pay. She says that the licensing people knocked her door and she told them this and they went away - no fine or court case! I think this is Bullshire

    The TV licensing people are told not to confront anyone so if you tell them a lot of Bullshire they are told in their training not to argue with you. They'll just write down what happened and leave it up to the manager to take it further.

    If you do want to answer the door answer it with a video camera and every time they should do as they are told in their training and walk away.
    :footie:
    :p Regular savers earn 6% interest (HSBC, First Direct, M&S) :p Loans cost 2.9% per year (Nationwide) = FREE money. :p
  • edited 26 August 2015 at 10:41AM
    CornucopiaCornucopia Forumite
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    edited 26 August 2015 at 10:41AM
    a person I know says that she doesn't pay a TV license as it's not a limited company and therefore she does not need to pay. She says that the licensing people knocked her door and she told them this and they went away - no fine or court case! I think this is Bullshire

    Whilst this is not true, the truth about TV Licensing is equally implausible. It's all bedded-in with lots of misinformation from the BBC, so I don't blame anyone who doesn't know, or thinks they know something they don't. (If you see what I mean).

    Some true facts about TV Licensing (within the context of IANAL).

    - While the BBC imply otherwise, there is no law requiring them to enforce the Licence. There is no legislation, and nothing specific in their Charter.

    - "TV Licensing" is a trading name of the BBC - it is not an independent organisation, nor an arm of Government. It is staffed mainly through a contract with Capita, the outsourcer. There is no such thing as the "TVLA" - this is a popular mis-extrapolation from DVLA.

    - If/when TVL call, you can therefore ignore them, perfectly lawfully.

    - The Human Rights Act gives you a Right to Privacy in your own home. You can beat TVL up using this, if you wish. Without legislation, they have no special right to be there.

    - The BBC says it relies on the consent of the householder to undertake visits, but it doesn't formally ask for consent, or attempt to do what the Law would actually require, which is obtain informed consent (i.e. when the person consenting knows, or has been told, the full legal extent of the situation). But if it does rely on consent, then stating clearly that you do not consent ought to be effective.

    - A TVL person who remains on your property, or returns, after having been instructed to leave is committing the civil tort of Trespass, and can be sued by a householder accordingly.

    - Most TVL cases are based upon confession evidence (whether this is given with the degree of willingness required by the Law is open to question). The simplest answer is not to answer any questions, and say you will not answer any questions until you have consulted a Solicitor. You can also tell TVL to leave your home at any time without needing a reason. If they refuse to leave when instructed then (a) then they are Trespassing and (b) you can ask the Police to intervene on your behalf.

    - You can permanently ban TVL from your premises using Common Law (called WOIRA) or the Human Rights Act (citing Article 8). BBC policy is that doing so puts you in a priority position for other enforcement action, but this is probably unlawful (particularly in the context of an Article 8-based instruction).

    - TVL Search Warrants are very, very rare (probably no more than 200-300 per year for the whole of England). There are none in Scotland. There are some potential anomalies with the application process, mainly that TVL are stretching the legal requirement for "reasonable evidence of an offence" to a ridiculous extent.

    - If you get a visit from a TVL person, you have the Right of Privacy generally, and if they start to ask you questions pertaining to a possible offence, you have the Right to Silence (the right not to say anything), and the Right to Counsel (the right to consult a Solicitor before deciding what, if anything, to say). You can also object to them recording the "interview" on their "178" form, because doing so would not be a verbatim record. You could also object to being interviewed on the doorstep/in your pyjamas/with the kids running around/with your dog barking because these are not appropriate circumstances for an interview under caution.

    - The Right to Silence and the Right to Counsel apply even to the Interview that might follow a Search Warrant execution. So, allow them their examination of TV equipment, deny them access to Computers and computing equipment (their warrant doesn't cover those). And when they are done, and they read the Caution (as they usually do, whether the search has uncovered evidence of an offence or not), simply demand the Right to Counsel and throw TVL off your premises.
    Ex Board Guide
  • Just a quick question, probably a stupid one too.
    If I set up my TV to delay ALL TV signals into my home by say 3 seconds, would I still have to pay for a TV licence. After all I am not watching any live TV at all.
    Opinions welcomed.
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