tesco fuel scam maybe?

bigjl

cardinalbiggles wrote: »

Em..... Nobody said BP tankers deliver to Tesco, I said they may contain the same fuel. When it comes out the refinery its either into a Tesco tanker or a BP tanker and it often is the EXACT SAME PRODUCT.

If as you say there is not evidence that additives effect the quality then you are agreeing that all petrol and diesel for automotive use is the same. It all comes from the same plant if aditives dont make a difference (and I dont believe they do except for winter additives to stop diesel turning to wax) then the fuel is identical, simple as that.

Your comments about other types of diesel are a red herring, they are different applications, we are talking of automotive diesel here.

No reason to use different trucks to deliver to different places, so they will be using the same trucks.


What do you mean different applications. Red diesel is the same wether you use it on a boat or in a tractor.

Red diesel is just normal diesel with dye added, or do you seriously think there is a specific red diesel refinery?

You can actually make more than one standard of diesel from the same basic refined product.

That is the small detail you are missing, Tesco may well buy their basic product from BP or ESSO like you suggest, but I can guarantee that if you had the two products analysed there will be crucial differences, I would think that these may be things that assist performance or combustibility perhaps. Maybe Cetane improvers?


Now this is the bit that confuses me a bit, I have already said, several times actually, that I didn't believe BP or ESSO where any better than Tesco as far as diesel or petrol goes.

However I have seen performance and economy improvements matched with reduced exhaust smoke emissions when using BP, ESSO etc.

With the opposite true when using Asda, Tesco or similar.

Now I don't know the reasons, there must be one, as the results I have noticed with my car have convinced me that there are differences.

Feel free to stay in the flat earth society if you want, but I can again confirm I have been convinced only by what I have seen with my own eyes.

I have no explanation, but the evidence is there in front of me, the fact that it doesn't agree with what I used to think is one of those things, personal experience has proved what I previously though was incorrect.

Though like the previous times I have posted this, I will again add the caveat that these results where obtained in a mk3 Mondeo TDCi, when the wifes Clio DCi is used I have noticed a little extra smoke on Tesco, and when I filled it up with ESSO diesel I noticed less smoke, not sure if this is due to me driving the car harder so exhaust had been treated to an Italian tuneup by my use of it.


But if anybody has driven behind a TDCi MOndeo on hard acceleration will know that any reduction in black smoke is easily spotted, for some reason TDCi Mondeos, the 130 in particular have a reputation for being smoking on hard acceleration.

Maybe mine is knackered, but since it does 50mpg round town with the odd 10 mile dual carraigeway trip every few days then I reckon it is in fairly good fettle.


If somebody can come up with a reason for the way my Mondeo runs on supermarket fuel the post away.

Don't forget that I have owned the car for over 2 years and I have used Asda, Morrisons and Tesco, all where the same.

Actually it ran really rough on Morrisons diesel, perhaps this is to do with the fact that the Morrisons near me sell diesel with 5% Bio in it?


I suppose I am like a reformed smoker, there is nobody so anti smoking as an ex smoker.

And I am the automotive equivalent, I used to thing there was no difference, personal experience has showed me different.


One other thing on diesel, I used to fill up my response car with BP "super diesel", when I did so it never went into limp mode, when it was loaned out to other stations and they filled with normal diesel it went back to going into limp mode every few days, always on hard acceleration though.

If anybody has a theory on that then feel free.

Don't think it drove any different otherwise, though it did seem to tickover a bit smoother, maybe it was my imagination, but the lack of limp mode was a definate.

So does anybody work for Vauxhall, Saab or Fiat and can explain that, the engine was the 1.9 CDTi with a DPF.

Is it possible that the "super diesel" might have been producing less soot due to cetane improvers in the "super diesel" perhaps?

Thus leading to less crap in the DPF?

cardinalbiggles

bigjl, I can't respond to your arguments, they are not consistent between postings. I can only assume that you are taken in by marketing hype.

Oil recomendations are for the properties not the brand, any recommendation for brand is purely marketing hype. Hence why Italian cars recommend Selenia, which surprise surprise is an Italian company. ACEA2 5W30 Halfords oil is going to be no better or worse than ACEA2 5W30 Castrol or Mobil/Comma, in fact you may find its the same thing.

I think we will need to agree to disagree, at the end of the day there is a lot of tripe spouted about supermarket fuels which just isn't true.

bigjl

I have done a little bit of research online, and have found a little relevant information regarding one of the specs of the fuel used by Tesco, Greenergy, they quote a lubricity of 460, this caused some concern with owners of VAG TDis in North America due to the high incidence of fuel pump failure in newer high pressure diesel engines.

When it was queried with one of the diesel experts at BP, in the US admittedly, it was found that the value for BP diesel was more normally in the high 300's, with a lower number being better.

I think this may well be the reason for better running in my Mondeo, as my car is one also noted for having high pressure fuel pump failures, the fact that for the last 50k I have mainly used BP and ESSO, may go some way to explain why my car has done high miles with no such issues so far.

It would appear that the lubricity of 460 is a minimum requirement for the minimum standard, and it would seem I am right in that BP and I would suspect ESSO and Shell aswell are aware of the minimum standard but aim their sights a little higher than minimum code.

I have cut and pasted it here.



@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
I just got off the phone after a 30 minute conversation with a BP diesel rep

I recently found out, through their website, that their "Diesel Supreme" has a maximum lubiricty of 460, according to the spec sheet on their own site (www.bpdiesel.com). As the owner of a new 2011 Golf TDI, I was obviously interested, so I emailed them to find out more. Long story short - after about a week of emails I finally got the number to call and within minutes was speaking with one of their main "diesel guys".

My primary concern, given the cases of hpfp failures and possible link to lubricity in US diesel, was the lubricity of their fuels. The guy I spoke to was extremely helpful and informative. He too had heard of the TDI problems and said that he has heard from many TDI owners about the issue.

After talking to him I am a bit at ease for the following reasons:

1) He assured me that ALL BP (and corresponding Amoco branded "premium diesel" sold at BP pumps) actually has a wear scar of much less than the magic 460. He ran the numbers for two pumps that had been tested by BP in my general area - one in Vienna VA and the other elsewhere in VA. These diesel at these pumps is tested roughly every month, and the data for the last 6 months at both stations showed that the wear scar was consistently in the upper 300's. Both of these pumps were BP (or Amoco) "premium diesel" and NOT the diesel supreme.

2) He also told me that ALL BP (and Amoco branded sold at BP pumps) diesel meets the SAME REQUIREMENTS for lubricity since they ALL RECEIVE THE SAME ADDITIVE for lubricity. The only difference, according to him, between BP D2, Premium Diesel and Diesel Supreme is the Cetane and other additives (winterization, etc). He told me that all BP diesel is treated to improve Lubricity and that the numbers he quoted me from those two pumps are representative of wear scar readings for ALL BP DIESEL.
Having heard this, I'm much more comfortable with my new TDI, given the chance that the hpfp failure is related to lubricity.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@'

This isn't about being right or wrong in my mind, it is about getting the right information out there so that forum members are better informed.

I also found the specs for Greenergy diesel but I don't know how to copy over a pdf file, I unfortunately don't use much IT at work, we leave that to the early twenties Uni grads.

One interesting bit of info was that performance additives are added as required at depots, so from that i would assume that the additives would be added not at the refinery but rather at the Tesco petrol stations.

Who thinks that Tesco will only put in the minimum needed, rather than trying to make their product as good as possible.

Hammyman

taxiphil wrote: »

It's ethanol (made from sugar) that they water it down with.

It's only Tesco and Morrisons that do this via their exclusive supplier Greenergy.

All the main petrol retailers, Shell, BP, Total, Texaco, Esso, etc, refuse to dilute their fuels with ethanol, which tells me a lot.

Top drag racers that do 1/4 mile in 4 seconds and reach over 300MPH in that distance and time use pure ethanol.

Also: Ethanol Car Beats Fuel Cells to Win European Eco-marathon

TwistedPsycho

dannyrado wrote: »

I now use tesco, my father always has, must amount to 300k miles. They never mess up clubcard points.

Well unless you include them now only giving 1 point per £2 on fuel AND reducing the rate at which they are redeemed for "rewards"