Beware of E4B contract

UtilityMan_3

Hi Lordie

You sign a contract with a new supplier via a broker, on the understanding you a forcing a breach. Therefore, if the transfer does not happen, the incoming supplier has no grounds for breach. The contract is only binding upon successful transfer.

So, you have two contracts. Personally, I can't see why anyone would pursue BoC, when as you say there are numerous reasons for you doing so. Anti-Competition, unfair practice, all manner of unreasonable practices.

If you, and your respective disgruntled SME's banded together and made a test case, the cost would be a tenner a head and the precedent would be set.

Law is all about precedent. you have to set one to allow other Judges to follow.

Regard the OFT, the result has been previously stated "Read the T's & C's" that is your obligation. All suppliers have the same terms, windows aside! It will take a Court action to find out where you stand. Personally, I STILL can't see where E4B differ from anyone else. Perhaps we need an action against the industry as a whole?

Read the "unbilled" thread and find out who the ombudsman is after September!

lordie

UtilityMan wrote: »

Hi Lordie

You sign a contract with a new supplier via a broker, on the understanding you a forcing a breach. Therefore, if the transfer does not happen, the incoming supplier has no grounds for breach. The contract is only binding upon successful transfer.

So, you have two contracts. Personally, I can't see why anyone would pursue BoC, when as you say there are numerous reasons for you doing so. Anti-Competition, unfair practice, all manner of unreasonable practices.

If you, and your respective disgruntled SME's banded together and made a test case, the cost would be a tenner a head and the precedent would be set.

Law is all about precedent. you have to set one to allow other Judges to follow.

Thank you Utilityman, but I still do not see how you can force a transfer? How do you and your new supplier get past the objection made by, in my case, E4B?

UtilityMan_3

You did!

"You may respond that it is impossible to breach. So how can there be BoC rules/litigation if it cannot be done?

The whole thing is done by computer. Data flows. This I believe is a D0058 or similar. If they don't respond within seven days the transfer happens.

I will try to pull together a lot of "domestic" threads on here to prove my point.

Transfers due to debt (domestically), should NEVER occur but happen regularly. Why? because it's all done by computer (e-mail in most cases).

If it is done enough times, it will eventually happen. the consequence is the BoC. If you feel your case is strong enough, then thats an option I would take. OFT and EW (as pjust stated) can only take you so far.

I feel a bit subdued, that E4B have taken the line they have. But that said, they are no different to any major supplier in that respect.

UtilityMan_3

You did!

"You may respond that it is impossible to breach. So how can there be BoC rules/litigation if it cannot be done?

The whole thing is done by computer. Data flows. This I believe is a D0058 or similar. If they don't respond within seven days the transfer happens.

I will try to pull together a lot of "domestic" threads on here to prove my point.

Transfers due to debt (domestically), should NEVER occur but happen regularly. Why? because it's all done by computer (e-mail in most cases).

If it is done enough times, it will eventually happen. the consequence is the BoC. If you feel your case is strong enough, then thats an option I would take. OFT and EW (as pjust stated) can only take you so far.

I feel a bit subdued, that E4B have taken the line they have. But that said, they are no different to any major supplier in that respect.

lordie

UtilityMan wrote: »

You did!

"You may respond that it is impossible to breach. So how can there be BoC rules/litigation if it cannot be done?

The whole thing is done by computer. Data flows. This I believe is a D0058 or similar. If they don't respond within seven days the transfer happens.

I will try to pull together a lot of "domestic" threads on here to prove my point.

Transfers due to debt (domestically), should NEVER occur but happen regularly. Why? because it's all done by computer (e-mail in most cases).

If it is done enough times, it will eventually happen. the consequence is the BoC. If you feel your case is strong enough, then thats an option I would take. OFT and EW (as pjust stated) can only take you so far.

I feel a bit subdued, that E4B have taken the line they have. But that said, they are no different to any major supplier in that respect.

Sorry if I seem a bit "dim", but can you run through what I, and any others in this position, need to do step by step?

Do I or the new supplier have to implement this "D0058"?

Surely they will respond within 7 days to stop the transfer happening?

UtilityMan_3

The "new" supplier instigates the transfer.

The "window" that was implied previously regarding the original transfer is diary dated. E4B will expect it, and will automatically deny it (not just them, it's industry standard!).

E4B's website have a diary where you can enter your transfer window and they will diarise to call you (superb for a fan like me!) and they will ensure it happens.

Outside of the window, it's a mish mash. Any transfer request will receive an automated e-mail response "no". But at the end of the day these have to be responded to physically or the transfer occurs.

It is then you are in BoC. If they are treating you like a lemon (as no doubt you are!) that is the only opportunity you will ever have to state your case.

Fight your corner, stand your ground, set the precedent and prevent other SME's being treated with the same contempt. OFT, Ombudsmen have no reason to be sympathetic. The T's & C's are there, it's your loss? Which goes back to my original statement that it is your fault (your new suppliers more to the point for not addressing the window) and C'est la vie.

Waterwalker

Hello all,
I am not sure E4B know what competition is !!
I know for myself if someone rings me for a price for my manufactured goods and does not like my price or terms or delivery time, they will order from my competitors with ten minutes let alone next year. If these people think they are competative invoice me for the DAY and I will pay at the end of every day. As for loosing £3m a month on sales,,,,, rubbish I am informed from a reliable source that there T/O is not even £3m, in fact far less.

In my view they are playing the numbers game, if they can BULLY, THREATEN, SCARE 75% of last years customers cheap costs to 'two farther' years at expensive costs, they make a profit on a three year term.
As for trading illiquid... who E4B ... they may be.

UtilityMan_3

You, yourself are paying them £15k+ p.a. and you are saying they don't turn £3m p.a. ??

I surrender!

"Reliable sources", "wait for the truth", "no smoke without fire", "don't believe everything you are told in the papers"

This has all gone too far now.

200 x £15k = £3m

lordie

UtilityMan wrote: »

You, yourself are paying them £15k+ p.a. and you are saying they don't turn £3m p.a. ??

I surrender!

"Reliable sources", "wait for the truth", "no smoke without fire", "don't believe everything you are told in the papers"

This has all gone too far now.

200 x £15k = £3m

Waterwalker`s useage is not going to be that of the average SME. Alot of E4B customers are likely to be small units and shops who will use far less. I run a small wholesale unit which uses about £2500 worth a year. I also run a small retail unit inside a shopping centre and that only uses about £700 worth a year. During my research I have asked all my wholesale customers a great deal about their own electricity suppliers, useage etc. Most of them were spending less than £2000/year. Waterwalker`s figures on T/O are based on readily available (at a cost) information. You may scoff when we ask you to be patient, but as the saying goes, everthing comes to he who waits.

UtilityMan_3

"As for loosing £3m a month on sales,,,,, rubbish I am informed from a reliable source that there T/O is not even £3m, in fact far less."

Come on lads £3m divided by £2k spend per customer = 1500 customers.

I have to bring this episode to a close. Nothing previously stated, has singled out E4B as doing anything any major supplier has not done before them.

You rolled your contracts, for that you are paying a higher price. Exactly the same with any other supplier.

I have no alternative but to report this thread, due to the fact it may be libellous.