Beware of E4B contract

lordie

This article written by Julian Morgan, a Business Energy Broker is very relevent to alot of the problems highlighted in this thread.
The most important point he makes is that as I have pointed out before, how do we know that your existing supplier is actually sending the renewal rates out? They have no way of proving that you have received them, either with a recorded delivery docket, or a taped phone conversation relating to your renewal documentation to confirm you received them. Without this surely you could argue that they have broken the terms of the contract by not sending the documents by the alloted timescale in the T & C`s.
I argued this exact point with Npower last year as I had not received any notification and did not know of my new, inflated rates until I received my quarterly bill. In the end after various threats of what they would do and what it would cost me, they backed down and allowed me to transfer supply.
The bottom line is that for something as important as a contract renewal that doesn`t need a physical signature, relying on us to believe that they have posted it is not good enough. Who else isn`t now thinking that it would be in their best interests for these renewals to get "lost" in the post?

http://ezinearticles.com/?Its-Not-Just-About-The-Price!&id=891967

Waterwalker

the system that all the energy suppliers use is ECOES
(Electricity Central Online Enquiry Service)
this stores EVERYBODYS details and who they are supplied by.
if you ring Energy Watch and have your MPAN number ready they can fax you your details.
http://www.ecoes.co.uk/

lordie

I have just concluded my E4B contract fiasco. As already stated I am now in another 2 year contract with E4B at an additional cost to myself of approximately £1250. I am left in this position even though I did everthing I could to ensure a safe transfer of my supply. I first of all enlisted the help of a broker and I made sure that I served notice to terminate with E4B at the earliest opportunity according to the terms of my contract. Even after all this Scottish Power still managed to miss the ludicrously unfair 7 day window that E4B allow by ONE day !!!. The best solution I could come up with was for me to buy myself out of the new E4B contract at a cost of £900. I suggested that we split this cost 3 ways, which I thought was more than fair, this would then leave me able to sign with Scottish Power as originally planned, thus giving them the opportunity to make back the £300 and more in profits gained from my account. It would also have allowed my broker Energyadviceline.org to have recouped some money with their commision fee from SP.

First of all the GOOD. I have to commend the actions of my broker, Julian Morgan at Energyadviceline.org. Although left in an awkward conflict of interest as he makes his living from the commisions he takes by selling electricity for the likes of Scottish Power and E4B, he did everthing he could to resolve things. After weeks of very frustrstrating and ultimately useless talks with Scottish Power, he has still offered me the £300 compensation. At least this proves that there are some good-guys in this cutthroat business.

Next, the BAD. The bottom line is that Scottish Power`s negligent actions have left me with a bill for over £900 after you deduct the compensation paid by my broker. At no point have they shown the slightest level of concern for my predicament. Their SME account Manager Alan Johnson sent me a most unapologetic letter part of which stated that they would not be held responsible for them failing to transfer supply, "whether or not forseeable". This statement implies that they did know of problems with the transfer and decided to sit on it rather than inform me when they found out thus giving me the opportunity to find another supplier who I would be able to transfer to before I was forced into the 2 year rollover E4B contract. Alan Magaritty another Manager at SP admitted to me that they knew of the problems involving the transfer from E4B prior to my case, why didn`t they tell me that in the first place? He also said that if I was forced to pay the E4B rates, Scottish Power would compensate me. That has not happened either. I also got hold of my ECOES report which confirms that SP only made their first attempt to transfer on 8th February. My initial contact was at the beginning of January, why the delay? I have made continued attempts to talk to Alan Johnson regarding the points in his letter but he has not returned any of my requests for him to contact me. My more than fair request for £300 compensation has also been rejected.

Finally we get to the UGLY. I am not sure where to start with E4B. I remember 14 months ago talking to their salesman about the pig of a job I had transferring from Npower. "don`t worry", he said, "you won`t have any problems with E4B". He neglected to point out that they are the only company with this 7 day window at the end of your contract. Miss it by so much as 1 day as I did, and you are doomed to 2 more years at their highly inflated tariff. Over the last 6 to 8 weeks I have learned alot about the underhand ways of E4B from many of their old and existing customers. Unfortunately it has come a bit too late for me, but I hope this forwarns potential new clients to their dodgy dealings. In a nutshell, E4B are walking a very thin line. They are a new company with significant debts. They do not produce electric, they are a wholesaler of it, relying on an extended line of credit and a very understanding bank !?! They are drumming up significant amounts of trade by offering incredeably low 1st year rates but also making it very dificult to get out of the automatically renewing 2 year rollover contract at a much higher tariff. Once tied into this they then make up the losses that I am sure they are making in the first year. I have been reliably informed that E4B have been awarded a gold medal for the amount of objections to transfer supply that they have made. If you are one of those, you must get hold of your ECOES report and check the new supplier`s application date and transfer date. If the transfer date falls any date 40 days before the end of your contract and 7 days beyond the end of your contract then they are in breach of their T & C`s.

UtilityMan_3

I really don’t know where to start with this one! Firstly, I hope E4B do not read this site or someone could be sued for Libel.

In all of this, the two parties to blame are SP and the Broker. They were both fully aware of the window, and did not adhere to it.

This begs the question as to why? Did SP offer preferential rates “knowing” they would not take the supply? If that is not the case, why are they offering cheap rates to E4B customers? Surely, that would breach anti-competition Laws in a far more serious way than anything E4B have done?

Lordie, you commend your broker, when he has surely messed up (hence the compensation?). Is he by any chance the same broker who sold you the E4B deal originally. Maybe not, but these brokers allegiances are only to who pays THEM the most commission, not necessarily gives you, the customer, the best deal.

You state the first years rates were “incredibly low”. Given the wholesale surge in electricity prices, exactly what are SP offering? If it is anything like “incredibly low” the whole thing is dodgy.

Competition in the Industry is a GOOD thing. Ganging up on small companies because of other peoples mistakes will stifle the competition and give the likes of SP carte blanche to charge you what they like.

Waterwalker is typical of the parasites and whingers in our Society. You really don’t have a problem mate. Because whatever they charge, whatever the length of the contract, you are over £4,000.00, YES FOUR THOUSAND POUNDS in arrears. So what does it matter to you what they charge? Might as well be a pound a unit?

lordie

UtilityMan wrote: »

I really don’t know where to start with this one! Firstly, I hope E4B do not read this site or someone could be sued for Libel.

In all of this, the two parties to blame are SP and the Broker. They were both fully aware of the window, and did not adhere to it.

This begs the question as to why? Did SP offer preferential rates “knowing” they would not take the supply? If that is not the case, why are they offering cheap rates to E4B customers? Surely, that would breach anti-competition Laws in a far more serious way than anything E4B have done?

Lordie, you commend your broker, when he has surely messed up (hence the compensation?). Is he by any chance the same broker who sold you the E4B deal originally. Maybe not, but these brokers allegiances are only to who pays THEM the most commission, not necessarily gives you, the customer, the best deal.

You state the first years rates were “incredibly low”. Given the wholesale surge in electricity prices, exactly what are SP offering? If it is anything like “incredibly low” the whole thing is dodgy.

Competition in the Industry is a GOOD thing. Ganging up on small companies because of other peoples mistakes will stifle the competition and give the likes of SP carte blanche to charge you what they like.

Waterwalker is typical of the parasites and whingers in our Society. You really don’t have a problem mate. Because whatever they charge, whatever the length of the contract, you are over £4,000.00, YES FOUR THOUSAND POUNDS in arrears. So what does it matter to you what they charge? Might as well be a pound a unit?

In answer to your first point, you can bet your life that E4B have read this post. As for them suing anybody, I would imagine that they are already upto their eyes in litigation as it is. As far as I am aware everthing stated on here has been factual and myself and waterwalker have given a true account of our dealings with all the companies involved. If you keep an eye on this thread in the upcoming weeks I am sure you will learn of more reasons why we are so angry concerning our dealings with E4B. Unfortunately at present we can say no more on that matter.

In respect of your comments about my broker and Scottish Power, yes, you are right, they did make a big mistake that has cost me alot of money. However, the main reason for this was due to the underhand tactics and inflexability employed by E4B in their T & C`s. I commended my broker because even though he and no doubt SP were covered from any form of court action by their own T & C`s, at least he agreed to pay the level of compensation that I suggested. This is more than can be said of SP who I think anyone following this thread would agree is more to blame for my predicament. I have been as fair as I could be considering the treatment I have received and feel it is ludicrous that they are not even prepared to contribute anything towards what is a substantial loss for my company. If they had done the decent thing then I would definately have continued with my original plan to have them supply me with electricity for the next year. I am sure that they then would have made enough profit to cover the £300 I was asking for in order to buy myself out of my E4B contract.

I am sure waterewalker will give you a reply to your comments on his case, but I feel I must just point out that it doesn`t matter what his arrears are at present. It matters more what he will be charged pence/unit for his arrears when he agrees to pay them back. He isn`t witholding the money for the fun of it, he again has valid reasons concerning the legality of the implementation of E4B`s rollover contract and that is why he is refusing to pay.

Waterwalker

Looks a bit suspect 'Utilityman' sounds like an E4B employee !!
or should we say Utilitywoman very definate female references in the reply.

As for having a go at people who send in info on there problems so it may help and warn other people maybe less able to defend themselves, I think if these companies traded more fairly there would be less threads of complaints on this site. This site has helped thousands of people in lots of different situations.
After having a contracts laywer look at E4Bs T & Cs his first quick comment was that may well NOT BE legal !! Contact law is supposed to give both sides the same Equal terms, and after reading through them a few times, most people could identify they are 'One sided'.

Anyway Lordie we must thank Utilityman / woman for there reply, after all it does keep this thread to the top of the pile and the PR for E4B is not very good at the moment.

I am quite happy that genuine people reading this thread with a concern about using E4B as a supplier will make up there own mind after reading the thread.
AFTERALL it is awlful rare for there to be so much smoke with no fire !!

UtilityMan_3

I write like a woman, interesting!

Reads my other posts on the site, I believe there is no voice for the small man, and when topics crop up that are my speciality, you may understand.

In this instance E4B are definitely the small man.

I can't see what they have done wrong? It has been stated throughout this, there are "introductory rates", "everybody in the industry knows E4B have the smallest transfer window in the industry"

One of you can surely answer me as to what the SP rates offered are and are they industry standard rates or "special" to undercut E4B, that would surely be anti-competitive?

How can E4B be "up to their eyes in litigation" if according to your letter from EW, they have done nothing wrong?

Every single company with roll-over contracts, in whatever industry, have higher rates for people who roll-over. They figure if people can't be bothered then why not? There are too many that do it, even to give you an example. It's what sites like this were created for, to make people aware.

The way I see this (still), is between SP and the Broker, they failed to arrange the transfer. If you can be specific as to how E4B are as bad as you say, it would help everyone who reads this, and are supplied by them.

Lordie, did the same broker that got you the SP contract also sign you up to E4B?

Out of curiousity WW, you say you were with Electricity Direct previously? How did you find them as a Company?

Waterwalker

Hello Utilityman,
i

lordie

UtilityMan wrote: »

I write like a woman, interesting!

Reads my other posts on the site, I believe there is no voice for the small man, and when topics crop up that are my speciality, you may understand.

In this instance E4B are definitely the small man.

I can't see what they have done wrong? It has been stated throughout this, there are "introductory rates", "everybody in the industry knows E4B have the smallest transfer window in the industry"

One of you can surely answer me as to what the SP rates offered are and are they industry standard rates or "special" to undercut E4B, that would surely be anti-competitive?

How can E4B be "up to their eyes in litigation" if according to your letter from EW, they have done nothing wrong?

Every single company with roll-over contracts, in whatever industry, have higher rates for people who roll-over. They figure if people can't be bothered then why not? There are too many that do it, even to give you an example. It's what sites like this were created for, to make people aware.

The way I see this (still), is between SP and the Broker, they failed to arrange the transfer. If you can be specific as to how E4B are as bad as you say, it would help everyone who reads this, and are supplied by them.

Lordie, did the same broker that got you the SP contract also sign you up to E4B?

Out of curiousity WW, you say you were with Electricity Direct previously? How did you find them as a Company?

I did say to you yesterday that at this time we cannot print specifics about what they have done wrong. Hopefully soon we will. Trust me when I say it is potentially very serious for them. All we can do is point out to potential customers who are not "in the industry" the points to look out for in their T & C`s.
As far as the SP rates go. They were 6.98/unit, no big secret. These were the rates given by my broker and I have no idea if they were special rates aimed at E4B in particular, and even if they were, how could you prove it?. All I know is they were alot less than the extortionate rates in E4B`s rollover 2 year contract.

Waterwalker

Hello Utilityman,
I believe your term for me is a Parasite & and a whinger !

And you say your trying to help people. Lets put the story straight.
I have been in business for 20-odd years, I have always paid my bills on time if not before.

I signed a contract for 12 months as I have done for years with different companies, I also take advice from a broker, a person who works for himself and has always advised me truely. I knew about the 7 day window, they knew I signed a 12 month contract. They ask for a minimum of 45 days notice to terminate, I gave over 50. I had a change over date within their terms for a new supplier to take over. I was over £ 1,300.00 in credit which had been building up all year, I have not whined about giving them free credit.
I asked them to quote me a price so I could stay with them, my broker also looked around the market to get me a price. My broker found me three choices cheaper than E4B, I wrote to E4B actually giving them the best price I had been quoted, not asking them to beat it, just match it. I would have been happy to stay with them had they done this. The price I had been quoted was an increase on the previous year. They did not answer my letter, just placed an objection to me changing supply.
This basically stops a new supplier from starting as the current supplier does not release the contract.
The '7 day window' is not quite correct IF they read thier own T & C's. If E4B want to change the 'tariff' for the next year, in thier terms they have to inform the customer not less than 40 days BEFORE the end of the origonal contract. At this time the customer can terminate if done within 30 days and can change supplier.
I have also twice written letters to resolve this problem and both times been rejected. Thier intention is to use all tactics they can to keep me for another two years at a much higher rate (the two years is also wrong) All they have to do is release my supply contract (allow me to shop where I can gain the best price/deal) I have offered to pay the same rate as the cheapest quote which is an increase in last years rate. Every person I have complained to have agreed this company is sabotaging the system. Electric to a large extent is like water, we all need it, I personally think the regulator should set the TERMS & CONDITION for both customer and supplier to adhere to.