Beware of E4B contract

UtilityMan_3

Hi WW

Sorry for getting off to a bad start but a quote like :

"But the nice feeling is :- they tell me I am now over £4,000.00 in arear's.. ha ha its nice to play with thier money for a change".

Makes my blood boil, as I worked in credit control, dealing with customers with severe financial problems. It was hard to assist these people, as I had to try and differentiate the genuinely needy, to the parasites and whingers (obviously, you fall into neither category hence the apology!!).

My point regarding SP aiming prices at E4B customers, if this put E4B out of business (extremely anti-competitive) the competition is over and they treat businesses the same as domestic suppliers. One puts the price up, they all follow suit and the competition is over.

You state they quoted you for a contract renewal, at this point you got your broker to shop around. You were free to leave, and you chose to. If they COULD have competed with your renewal price, surely they would have done at that point?

It seems the whole thing revolves around the missed window, and I have stated previously that is not the fault of E4B.

You did all you could to stick to the rules. E4B have done the same.

OK, you want a solution......... Personally, I would breach the contract and force the transfer. E4B are sales driven. The accounts are simple, you HAVE to pay by DD. The estimated annual consumption is divided by 12 and your account gets reconciled at the end of the year. My guess would be the sales team is 100 times the size of the accounts department. That being the case, how large would the Legal team be? As stated, that is my personal opinion, not advice! Hopefully, that doesn't make me sound like a woman or and E4B employee!

The reason why I would choose that as an option is dicing with debt is dicing with death. Rights of Entry Warrants for commercial properties are a simple case of if the customer is in debt, the warrant is granted. Obviously, the customer has a right to appear in Court to substantiate queries, (9/10 they will throw out the application,as they are not qualified to arbitrate). BUT withholding payments doesn't wash. The Courts see it as trading while illiquid, which in itself is a crime.

lordie

UtilityMan wrote: »

Hi WW

Sorry for getting off to a bad start but a quote like :

"But the nice feeling is :- they tell me I am now over £4,000.00 in arear's.. ha ha its nice to play with thier money for a change".

Makes my blood boil, as I worked in credit control, dealing with customers with severe financial problems. It was hard to assist these people, as I had to try and differentiate the genuinely needy, to the parasites and whingers (obviously, you fall into neither category hence the apology!!).

My point regarding SP aiming prices at E4B customers, if this put E4B out of business (extremely anti-competitive) the competition is over and they treat businesses the same as domestic suppliers. One puts the price up, they all follow suit and the competition is over.

You state they quoted you for a contract renewal, at this point you got your broker to shop around. You were free to leave, and you chose to. If they COULD have competed with your renewal price, surely they would have done at that point?

It seems the whole thing revolves around the missed window, and I have stated previously that is not the fault of E4B.

You did all you could to stick to the rules. E4B have done the same.

OK, you want a solution......... Personally, I would breach the contract and force the transfer. E4B are sales driven. The accounts are simple, you HAVE to pay by DD. The estimated annual consumption is divided by 12 and your account gets reconciled at the end of the year. My guess would be the sales team is 100 times the size of the accounts department. That being the case, how large would the Legal team be? As stated, that is my personal opinion, not advice! Hopefully, that doesn't make me sound like a woman or and E4B employee!

The reason why I would choose that as an option is dicing with debt is dicing with death. Rights of Entry Warrants for commercial properties are a simple case of if the customer is in debt, the warrant is granted. Obviously, the customer has a right to appear in Court to substantiate queries, (9/10 they will throw out the application,as they are not qualified to arbitrate). BUT withholding payments doesn't wash. The Courts see it as trading while illiquid, which in itself is a crime.

I see you are still adament that E4B are not at fault here. Infuriating as it is, I am sure that if you just wait and find out the full facts of what they have done, you will look on them differently.
Can you explain what you mean by "breach the contract and force the transfer"? If E4B keep objecting how can their customers transfer? The only way out is to buy yourself out of the contract. In my case this would cost almost as much as the extra cost of the new 2nd and 3rd year rates.

UtilityMan_3

OK, the way I see it is this:

You feel E4B have breached your contract (I will have to wait and see for the full facts as per your last post).

Therefore, I would go ahead and sign with a new supplier, as long as there is a full understanding they would not pursue you for BoC if unsuccessful.

Now you have two contracts. One has to be your supplier, the other you have breached.

There was an Ofgem complaint on 17.04.07, where new customers of E4B were being contacted by BGAS during the objection period and BGAS were contacting the customers offering lower prices :

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Markets/RetMkts/Compl/CustTransf/Documents1/Objections%20Consultation%20Letter%20170407.pdf

By E4B's own admissions this cost them £3 million per month in lost new business :

http://www.catalyst-commercial.co.uk/blog/category/business-electricity

"Control F" search for Breach halfway down.

£3 million PER MONTH, that is a hell of a lot of BoC contracts.

Now, you have to weigh up the odds of being pursued by E4B for BoC.

To me, that is a very long queue to be at the back of!

The above is E4B bemoaning the system, if it were me Iwould use it to pay them back?

Waterwalker

Hello Utilityman,
Don't believe everything you are told or read in the Papers.
Its quite easy to get to know certain facts about companies, you usually have to pay for the information and make sure you do not divulge what is not in public domain.
As I said, I have been in business for 20-odd years and I have been 'stung' quite a few times by companies going bust, in recivership, changing names, using holding companies, going into VA, and been in court a few times, to get a judgement on things.
I cannot understand why E4B are trading like this, the PR is doing them no good at all, if they trade fairly with good conditions people would be flocking to move to them. I do not always go to the cheapest and would have gladly stayed with E4B if they had been fair. It does cost quite a bit of time to change, it is much better to stay with the same company, look at the Banks, they get it right, once joined most people stop for life.

Waterwalker

Just picked these comments from an unconnected site !!
I agree with all those above sentiments about E4B. They are crooks with suits on and it should be published to all those who do not know of their reputation, that they should be avoided at all costs.

- Ian White, London
The OFT (Office of Fair Trading) have a tel number for complaints.

The more complaints they get, the quicker these thieves will be brought to task.

- Peter Hart, Chorley
Scottish Hydro-Eectric have just increased the price of our electricity from 6.89p to 11.35p per unit, that's an increase of about 65% and we're locked in for another year. This is a tad on the savage side. We live in a tied cottage on an out-farm and even though 99.9% of our electric usage is domestic we are classed as a business for electricity (there's only a few rarely used lights and even more rarely used share of the water pump that is business. It appears that we cannot be change to being a domestic customer. We've all the disadvantages, and none of the advantages of a business; our employer is able to reclaim the VAT whilst we pay for the electric use. It's good to see feedback on other suppliers so if we decide to try and move we know who not to pick.

- R Smith, Aberdeenshire
E4B should be put out of business - they are unethical and their terms and conditions should be deemed illegal. There should be some authorised body who can check the terms and conditions of a business to business contract and decide if they are fair. My electricity bills are increasing from £720 to £1,100 per month which the business cannot afford and they freely admitted to me that they will charge what they like when they trap you into the rollover contract. They must be stopped!! Perhaps all of the customers who are being conned and ripped off should get together and try to do something. Send me an email - [EMAIL="grahamwillet@aol.com"]grahamwillet@aol.com[/EMAIL]

- Graham Shaw, Nottingham
Never take an E4B contract, as it is nearly impossible to leave because of their rollover policy. Read the small print and they can charge what ever they like and make it nearly impossible for another supplier to take over your electricity supply.

- Edward Yeo, Cornwall
Npower and their electricity small buisiness contracts are totally outrageous, you receive notification of price increases 30 days after you legally have to give them a cancellation of contract letter !!90 days) therefore you have no option to even think about changing to a cheaper supplier because you are tied for another 12 months at well over the top rates 50% increases.

- G Addinall, lincolnshire
Absolutely - its a scandal. I have had the very worst service ever from a company called E4B. In 25 years of business I have not seen a company as bad and Energywatch can't seem to help.

- Paul Robinson, East Sussex

Unprintable !!

UtilityMan_3

That's a bit unfair quoting complaints regarding E4B, when the complaints are regarding Scottish Hydro and NPower also?

That said, I have looked at E4B's website and I am sure this isn't irony :

http://www.electricity4business.co.uk/products/quote.asp

Basically, rolling a contract with ANY supplier is bad business, from your own perspective.

My defending E4B is out of the fact that, without competition, businesses will be hung out to dry (in the same respect that domestic users are currently!)

Their ethos is/was to cut the backroom costs by simplifying the payment structure thus enabling the supply of cheaper energy.

Bear in mind the £3 million per month mentioned above. Major suppliers DELIBERATELY undercut E4B, to keep the customer.

Without E4B in existence, would they do it?

All major suppliers, and E4B for that matter, have SAVE teams. People employed to offer sweeteners to keep your trade.

Obviously, these do not apply to customers who (for whatever reason) allow their contracts to roll.

Hopefully, you can see that in this respect, E4B are only acting the same as the major players. They have to compete to survive, but sometimes the playing field is not level and they have to follow suit to do that?

lordie

Well Utityman, as much as you seem to be championing the underdog in the form of E4B, it just seems to me you have picked the wrong dog. I am the first to admit that us SME`s need there to be as many utility suppliers out there willing to give the big-boys a run for their money, but not if they themselves are going to employ big-boy style bullying tactics to make their profits. You cannot argue against the amount of disgruntled E4B clients there are out there. Waterwalker has been contacted by dozens privately as have I who just do not want to air their grievences publically in the forums. In alot of these instances there are court cases pending and so quite rightly they do not want anything mentioned in the public domain to affect this. You should try giving Energywatch a call and ask them how many different SME`s have been in touch over objections lodged by E4B. Do a search on the OFGEM website and you will find that they have made rulings against E4B regarding objections aswell. This is not an attempt to discredit a company for the sheer sake of it. SME`s are having as very tough time of it at present. The last thing they need is to be wasting valuable time chasing after the likes of E4B, which in my case seems to be ruling my life for the last couple of months, trying to find a way of not having to pay considerable amounts of extra money for their gas or electric. Some of the sums I have heard could mean the difference between a company surviving or going bust. E4B should now just admit that the wording of their contract is grossly unfair, and bring it inline with the vast majority of other suppliers. If you miss your deadline with them they just charge at the higher rate until you can arrange a new date for transfer. To tie you in for a further 2 years for missing the 7 day window by 1 day as in my case is totally outrageous.

UtilityMan_3

Hi Lordie

My whole point on this was "picking" on E4B. You get punished by any supplier for rolling.

As stated to you personally, I would breach the contract if I felt I was that badly treated.

You may respond that it is impossible to breach. So how can there be BoC rules/litigation if it cannot be done?

The whole thing is done by computer. Data flows. This I believe is a D0058 or similar. If they don't respond within seven days the transfer happens.

If it meant the survival of my business, I would take that line. If as you say (and I have no reason at all to doubt it) there are lots like you (this thread has over 1100 hits! lol!). Then the system would soon be clogged!

Regards

UM

UtilityMan_3

Regarding publicity, this thread is now number eight on a google search for "E4B" on page ONE !!!

If it was headlined "Beware of rolling contracts with ANY SME supplier" perhaps I would not be so vociferous!

Still, as Andy Warhol said "Any publicity is good publicity" or "Everyone will get their 15 minutes of fame" (one or the other!). The issue is being addressed!

lordie

UtilityMan wrote: »

Hi Lordie

My whole point on this was "picking" on E4B. You get punished by any supplier for rolling.

As stated to you personally, I would breach the contract if I felt I was that badly treated.

You may respond that it is impossible to breach. So how can there be BoC rules/litigation if it cannot be done?

The whole thing is done by computer. Data flows. This I believe is a D0058 or similar. If they don't respond within seven days the transfer happens.

If it meant the survival of my business, I would take that line. If as you say (and I have no reason at all to doubt it) there are lots like you (this thread has over 1100 hits! lol!). Then the system would soon be clogged!

Regards

UM

I do not doubt this. You have to ask the question as to whether the punishment befits the crime? And in E4B`s case I think the "punishment" is too severe.
I have noticed that you seem to have an in-depth grasp of the complexities regarding transfer of supply of electric accounts. As there are alot of us SME`s in the same predicament here, why not tell us in laymans terms how we go about forcing a transfer when we have been unfairly tied into a new contract?