Beware of E4B contract

Waterwalker

Hello Bigcolin,
I guess you had a run-in with them.
The MD is Simon Jonathon Miles from a small village outside Bambury, The old MD OF ELECTRICTY DIRECT now lives in New Zealand and they bragg about their office over there. These people don't care about the harm they are doing to make money, even all the brokers are loosing out as when they deem you as contracted in for another two years, the brokers don't make any money from helping you change to another supplier.

I cancelled my direct debit in December while over £1,300.00 in credit. but if I had kept the DD open to date I would have paid £1,137.37 more than I paid the previous year for the same amout of units. (thats just 6 months).

So approx in 12 months it would have been £2,300.00 ..... in two years
£ 4,600.00 .... This is what they are doing to lots of small businesses.
Well not this one, Next week my solicitor offers mediation as a road to resolvement, if they decline, the judicial system takes a very bad view of their action.
E4B is only a small company, turn over (sales) of just over £1.8m this is big to many of the small traders they bully and freighten, but not so big when you put ten or twenty small ones together to fight the court case in a joined action. They can only trade as they get about 230 days credit from the generaters, so its a numbers game.

They bill the customer and get paid monthly by DD then use the interest off this money untill they have to pay their suppliers, easy money if you can scare your customers wit-less and deem them contracted for a furter two years. That's why I call it thieving, cheap units first year to drag you into the web then spring the trap for the next two years.

ALL E4B CUSTOMERS BE AWARE this is all true and I have all the evidence to back it up.

thanks Bigcolin for helping keep this thread to the top, hopefully it warns lots of other sme's

frankman

They have made it into a national newspaper now. These criminals can't go on doing this much longer, can they?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/07/01/ybnrg101.xml

lordie

This article from the Telegraph yet again only serves to publicise the underhand tactics employed by E4B. How can this company still be allowed to get away with this? Surely OFGEM must now step in and either suspend their licence or impose a substantial fine on them. If not, what is the point of Energywatch??!!

For any potential customers of E4B, here is the article in full. You must be mad to sign up with them after reading this......

Watchdog criticises firms' transfer policies


By Richard Tyler

Last Updated: 12:55am BST 04/07/2008




Have your say Read comments
Two small business energy suppliers have been heavily criticised by the industry watchdog for taking advantage of the inefficiencies of their larger rivals and imposing "savage" time restrictions on their contract transfer policies.
Energywatch has singled out gas provider Business Energy Solutions (BES) and Electricity4Business (E4B) for censure, referring multiple customer complaints against both suppliers to Ofgem, the regulator, for consideration.
Both use contract conditions to insist customers switch to new suppliers within a certain timeframe after contracts expire: in the case of BES this is 24 hours and E4B has a seven-day cut off. Any that have not managed to switch by then are automatically renewed on new long-term contracts with BES and E4B. The problem is that switching takes longer than many small business owners think.
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The market is dominated by six big suppliers - British Gas, Powergen, Npower, EDF, Scottish Power and Scottish & Southern - and between them they control over 95pc of the market. Energywatch says it takes on average four weeks for the process to complete, although this is contested by E4B, which says it can switch customers to a new supplier "at the press of a button".
Industry regulations mean suppliers can only begin the transfer process 28 days before the end of a contract, so on Energywatch's calculations the terms imposed by BES and E4B leave little margin for error.
Audrey Gallacher, head of company performance for Energywatch said: "Electricity 4Business and Business Energy Solutions know full well that it takes an average of four weeks for the transfer process to be completed. The time restriction on their transfer policy can therefore only be perceived as a savage and deliberate attempt to block customers from switching away."
Customers are caught because renewal quotes are up to three times as expensive as rates offered by the same supplier to new customers. British Gas Business is currently renewing electricity customers on two-year contract rates of around 24p per kilowatt hour, when the cheapest on the market, according to price comparison site MakeitCheaper.com, is around 9p.
E4B's director Graham Paul rejected Energywatch's allegations, arguing that the firm's customers were informed well in advance of their contract renewal deadline, giving them time to switch if they wanted.
In a statement, he said: "Electricity4Business are staggered at watchdog's claim that it takes an average of four weeks for the Big Six transfer process to be completed. The customer transfer is very mature, quick and simple. At E4B it takes less than four minutes to send the necessary transfer request to the incumbent supplier.
The suggestion that our methods of operating are an attempt to deliberately block customer transfers is ridiculous and not true. All of our customers are notified in writing 75 days prior to the end of their initial contract period, giving customers plenty of time to shop around to see if they can find a better price."
He added: "The industry regulations allow for the new supplier to request a customer transfer up to 28 days prior to a required transfer date, and we allow an additional seven days on top of the 28 days, giving a total of 35 days for the supply transfer to be completed."
Mr Paul explained E4B imposed the seven-day post contract restriction because it lost money when customers continued to require electricity after their contract had expired. To continue to supply them, E4B has to buy the electricity in the wholesale market at a higher rate than it would charge the customer.
"We take that on the chin," he said. "But we can't afford to do it beyond a period of seven days."
Phil Brown, general manager at Blackpool-based BES, also defended the company's policy, saying that the company had received "hardly any complaints at all" from its 3,000 customers. "We have it in our terms and conditions but we are very understanding of people coming to us saying can you release me because of x, y and z. We are not a shark company. We don't need to employ those sort of tactics and we don't," he said.
"If Ofgem told us that any aspect of our terms were not appropriate we would make any changes that they felt was necessary. But Ofgem never have."
Case Study: I was caught by the small print
Your Business reader Eddie Evans says his cats home business, Lymington, Hampshire-based Cottage Gardens Cats, has been caught by the small print in E4B's contract.
He had leased the business to Alyson Hall who had signed the business up to E4B for a year because of their low new customers prices but she decided to terminate the contract in March when they offered her a two-year contract and quoted her significantly higher prices if she renewed. Customers have to cancel contracts with E4B 45 days before the contract's end date, which she did.
Ms Hall then decided to end the lease, handing the business back to Mr Evans. He called an energy broker, called Energyhelpline, which quoted him a cheaper new-customer price at EdF Energy, but at that point it told him that there was no way that Ms Hall could switch in time to meet E4B's "transfer window".
Mr Evans still applied to Edf Energy, which began the transfer of the account. But E4B objected three times to the move, citing failure to comply with "Clause 4" of its terms and conditions in letters to Ms Hall. This clause includes the seven-day transfer window condition.
E4B's Graham Paul said the transfer was delayed because Ms Hall was slow to provide details of when she was leaving the business, a final meter reading and contact details of the new tenant. Mr Evans countered: "They got everything they asked for. We contacted them and also got onto Energyhelpline to contact them to find out why they were objecting to the move."
EdF finally began supply the cattery on May 5 and E4B invoiced Mr Evans for the electricity he had used between April and May on a out-of-contract rate - these rates are typically double those offered to customers agreeing to longer term contracts. E4B has admitted that due to a "typing error" Mr Evans was billed £2,006 rather than the £787 he did owe.
Mr Paul said the firm had apologised for the error and had sent him a holiday voucher as a gesture of goodwill. Mr Evans said he had not yet received the voucher. Mr Evans asked: "Why should I have to do all this just to change electricity? I have 30 letters here, it's unbelievable."
•For further information on energy contracts including a list of nine essential questions to ask any new supplier, go to: www.smallbusinessenergy.org.uk

frankman

i think they got me as well

My contract with e4b ends soon (30/07/08). I have written to them to let them know that I dont want to renew the contract (19/06/08) and found another company to take over (26/06/08). However I have got a letter today (10/07/08) telling me that they have objected (clause 4).

I thought the the "7 day window" didn't apply until after the contract finished?

Is there any way out?

cobblersdespair

a telesales rep phoned to ask me to change my supplier for electric saying i was out of contract so i phoned n-power to ask if indeed iwas to be told no your current contract expires on jan 2009 aaaaaaaah but what they did not tell me was that i had supposedly had a letter from them in october2007 telling me my contract was due for renewal, which surprise surprise i did not get, therefore not replying i automatically gave the the right to give me a "rolling contract for 12months tripling my unit rate as i realised when first quarter bill came in, i phoned npower only to be told i could not cancel the contract unless i give 3 months notice and even if i do that now i still cant switch until jan09, so i phoned energywatch a supposed govt body who are regulaters of said companies only to be told they cant do a thing about it,
but i didnot sign any continued contact they say it does not matter if they dont hear from you they are entitled to roll your contract over on a higher rate, so disgusted with this i have reached a decision whereby they cannot hold me to a contract and that is to retire forcibly and pass the lease of my shop on to someone else who will be able to choose their own supplier

Waterwalker

frankman wrote: »

i think they got me as well

My contract with e4b ends soon (30/07/08). I have written to them to let them know that I dont want to renew the contract (19/06/08) and found another company to take over (26/06/08). However I have got a letter today (10/07/08) telling me that they have objected (clause 4).

I thought the the "7 day window" didn't apply until after the contract finished?

Is there any way out?

HELLO FRANKMAN,
Look and read term 9:11 of thier terms and conditions.
CONFIRM TERMINATION OF YOUR CONTRACT as they have stated in THIER terms and conditions.
states :- Where the customer recieves a notice of Tariff change containing an increase in Tariff and/or ROLLOVER TERM it may within 30 days of the recipt of such notice, serve notice of termination of contract on the supplier (on which case this agreement will terminate on the day supply is transferred to a new electrical supplier)..... CLOSED BRACKETS ....
Failing which this agreement shall continue in effect etc etc etc.
no business can function without cashflow, cancel your DD like I did.:T

lordie

frankman wrote: »

i think they got me as well

My contract with e4b ends soon (30/07/08). I have written to them to let them know that I dont want to renew the contract (19/06/08) and found another company to take over (26/06/08). However I have got a letter today (10/07/08) telling me that they have objected (clause 4).

I thought the the "7 day window" didn't apply until after the contract finished?

Is there any way out?

What is the exact date your new supplier has given you for changeover? If it is any date prior to 06/08/2008, then their objection is illegal !!! Cancel your DD immediately and threaten them with legal action. You should also contact Energywatch as they are finally taking note of all the complaints against E4B and are set to take action against them.

jon25MK

Hello

I work in the electricity industry and although I am not going to name the company I work with I might be able to help if people would like some.

let me know and I will give you as much help as possible

Waterwalker

Hello Jon25MK,
When you say you may be able to help, in what way ?

If you have read all this thread, you must know quite a lot of information.
please just say what you think, if it can help one or all of us will use your information.
As for myself, I know these people are playing numbers games, I think they are going bust, but while they still have money coming in via direct debit why do anything. I stopped my DD in december of £1,200.00 per month. They have not taken me to court, I am still waiting. They have tried all the threats and bullying tactics, and I have tried to resolve the issue on several occassions.
If they take me to court I will win as I have the proof that they broke thier own T&C's. So you have to ask yourself why have they not taken me to court ? ..... because it is against their interests. I would immediatly publish the result on this site and then everyone would cancel there DD's as precident would be set. So they would go out of business.
I cannot get a new supplier as they will not release the supply.
So they supply me free electric.
Or whatever the judge adudicates I pay at the end of the day.

These people can only do this as they get approx 230 days credit from the generators. so they have everyones money in the bank earning interest untill they pay the generators, after the first 230 days it becomes a rolling road, as long as their overheads do not increase above the difference they have to pay the generators and the interest they get from the bank (and at the moment its quite good) they have an easy living.

The T/O is approx £1.8m on 7% interest for 230 days would be quite good.
Hence they do not want me to upset the money cart, until more people stop their DD and it closes the gap of profit or not they will carry on what they are doing. When they go bust, I cannot be taken to court for the money as my contact WAS with E4B not the generator. If they do take me to court (which I would like as I am sick of this game) and the judgement is that I pay I can only be made to pay a % towards the differance of the origonal cost and not the legal fees.
Some of this is still a little unclear until judgement day, but if you can or do know a faster better way why not tell all, after all it is what this site is for !!

lordie

Waterwalker wrote: »

Hello Jon25MK,
When you say you may be able to help, in what way ?

If you have read all this thread, you must know quite a lot of information.
please just say what you think, if it can help one or all of us will use your information.
As for myself, I know these people are playing numbers games, I think they are going bust, but while they still have money coming in via direct debit why do anything. I stopped my DD in december of £1,200.00 per month. They have not taken me to court, I am still waiting. They have tried all the threats and bullying tactics, and I have tried to resolve the issue on several occassions.
If they take me to court I will win as I have the proof that they broke thier own T&C's. So you have to ask yourself why have they not taken me to court ? ..... because it is against their interests. I would immediatly publish the result on this site and then everyone would cancel there DD's as precident would be set. So they would go out of business.
I cannot get a new supplier as they will not release the supply.
So they supply me free electric.
Or whatever the judge adudicates I pay at the end of the day.

These people can only do this as they get approx 230 days credit from the generators. so they have everyones money in the bank earning interest untill they pay the generators, after the first 230 days it becomes a rolling road, as long as their overheads do not increase above the difference they have to pay the generators and the interest they get from the bank (and at the moment its quite good) they have an easy living.

The T/O is approx £1.8m on 7% interest for 230 days would be quite good.
Hence they do not want me to upset the money cart, until more people stop their DD and it closes the gap of profit or not they will carry on what they are doing. When they go bust, I cannot be taken to court for the money as my contact WAS with E4B not the generator. If they do take me to court (which I would like as I am sick of this game) and the judgement is that I pay I can only be made to pay a % towards the differance of the origonal cost and not the legal fees.
Some of this is still a little unclear until judgement day, but if you can or do know a faster better way why not tell all, after all it is what this site is for !!

Waterwalker,

Did you ever send your ECOSE report to Energywatch or OFGEM?

Iam sure that report on its own is so damning against E4B that they would have been forced to at least suspend their license until they came up with a reasonable answer as to why they would not let you switch your supply. All the dates in that report of yours were well within the allowable timescale as laid out in E4B`s T&C`s. If energywatch checked up, how could they not act or at least pass it on to OFGEM to sort E4B out once and for all. How much more evidence do they need before they act???