Here I go again ….

Rosie1001

mmmmikey said:

Rosie1001 said:

mmmmikey said:

Rosie1001 said:

 I’d prefer octopus purely because of their customer service 

I can’t keep doing what I am doing , 

im starting a new job in two weeks and that will take up all my days in the week , I can’t be bothered to fight another energy supplier 

Hi - at the risk of being a profit of doom I'd put money on you going through this experience for a number of years until you bite the bullet and rep!ace your antique, wasteful heating system with something more appropriate to modern times - or at the very least update the controls and/or use supplementary heaters in the evening.

The heaters themselves may only be 20 or 30 years old but the technology dates back 50 or 60 years. Things have moved on somewhat since then. By modern standards your heaters are crappier than a crap thing having a crap day. That's why the industry is moving away from them and you are finding life so difficult.

Move with the times or continue to swim against the tide until it eventually gets so strong it overwhelms you - the choice is yours......

There is many people who are in my situation and I don’t think your advice is helpful 

where do you propose the money comes from doing all this ???

my husband is in bad  health and he’s 71 this year so definitely won’t be working 

My wages are the main income , and I can’t just magically find money to do what would be a major upgrade 

Hi, the gap here is that I'm describing how the situation as it actually is today, whereas others are overlaying that with how they (often perfectly reasonably) feel it could and/or should be.

The situation today is that Economy 10 is being discontinued by a number of suppliers, and where it is available customer services agents seem to be poorly trained (and even in the best of times customer service isn't always what it should be). Is it acceptable that customer services you have experienced is so poor - no of course not! Is it poor - well, you decide... 

Absolutely right and appropriate that you should complain about it, but I suspect the reality is that it's not likely to get much better any time soon as energy suppliers are likely to focus their attention on training their agents on technologies of the future (like heat pumps, solar panels and batteries) rather than metering systems of the past.

The industry generally is moving away from the type of system you have. There is a very real risk that you get over the current hurdle with EDF only to come up against a similar hurdle with your next supplier, which is what I mean when I say you are swimming against the tide. That's not intended to be a judgement, just a realistic description of where things are at today. The industry is pulling in one direction and you are trying to pull them in another. If you successfully get the industry to change direction (by complaing to your MP and so on) you may get them to change. But that's a fairly big "if" IMHO.

The money to "do all this" potentially comes from the savings you make by switching to a less wasteful heating system and taking advantage of the better pricing that will become available to you if you do. How you get there depends on your financial circumstances, but suffice to say there are lots of options and possibilities.

Sorry but you are wrong , what options and possibilities do I have ??

I don’t do debt , and I certainly don’t have savings to pull out to pull out to do this work 

suppliers could support off peak tariffs more for heating , they are pushing EV tariffs which are the same really , both time of use ! 

Wasteful heating , In your opinion ! 

Rosie1001

“ The industry generally is moving away from the type of system you have. There is a very real risk that you get over the current hurdle with EDF only to come up against a similar hurdle with your next supplier, which is what I mean when I say you are swimming against the tide. That's not intended to be a judgement, just a realistic description of where things are at today. The industry is pulling in one direction and you are trying to pull them in another. If you successfully get the industry to change direction (by complaing to your MP and so on) you may get them to change. But that's a fairly big "if" IMHO.” 

***********************************************

Me and nearly one million customers who are coming from RTS metering !!!! 

mmmmikey

Rosie1001 said:

mmmmikey said:

Rosie1001 said:

mmmmikey said:

Rosie1001 said:

 I’d prefer octopus purely because of their customer service 

I can’t keep doing what I am doing , 

im starting a new job in two weeks and that will take up all my days in the week , I can’t be bothered to fight another energy supplier 

Hi - at the risk of being a profit of doom I'd put money on you going through this experience for a number of years until you bite the bullet and rep!ace your antique, wasteful heating system with something more appropriate to modern times - or at the very least update the controls and/or use supplementary heaters in the evening.

The heaters themselves may only be 20 or 30 years old but the technology dates back 50 or 60 years. Things have moved on somewhat since then. By modern standards your heaters are crappier than a crap thing having a crap day. That's why the industry is moving away from them and you are finding life so difficult.

Move with the times or continue to swim against the tide until it eventually gets so strong it overwhelms you - the choice is yours......

There is many people who are in my situation and I don’t think your advice is helpful 

where do you propose the money comes from doing all this ???

my husband is in bad  health and he’s 71 this year so definitely won’t be working 

My wages are the main income , and I can’t just magically find money to do what would be a major upgrade 

Hi, the gap here is that I'm describing how the situation as it actually is today, whereas others are overlaying that with how they (often perfectly reasonably) feel it could and/or should be.

The situation today is that Economy 10 is being discontinued by a number of suppliers, and where it is available customer services agents seem to be poorly trained (and even in the best of times customer service isn't always what it should be). Is it acceptable that customer services you have experienced is so poor - no of course not! Is it poor - well, you decide... 

Absolutely right and appropriate that you should complain about it, but I suspect the reality is that it's not likely to get much better any time soon as energy suppliers are likely to focus their attention on training their agents on technologies of the future (like heat pumps, solar panels and batteries) rather than metering systems of the past.

The industry generally is moving away from the type of system you have. There is a very real risk that you get over the current hurdle with EDF only to come up against a similar hurdle with your next supplier, which is what I mean when I say you are swimming against the tide. That's not intended to be a judgement, just a realistic description of where things are at today. The industry is pulling in one direction and you are trying to pull them in another. If you successfully get the industry to change direction (by complaing to your MP and so on) you may get them to change. But that's a fairly big "if" IMHO.

The money to "do all this" potentially comes from the savings you make by switching to a less wasteful heating system and taking advantage of the better pricing that will become available to you if you do. How you get there depends on your financial circumstances, but suffice to say there are lots of options and possibilities.

Sorry but you are wrong , what options and possibilities do I have ??

I don’t do debt , and I certainly don’t have savings to pull out to pull out to do this work 

suppliers could support off peak tariffs more for heating , they are pushing EV tariffs which are the same really , both time of use ! 

Wasteful heating , In your opinion ! 

The options and possibilities were outlined to you at the beginning of your previous thread on this subject. If that is something you would like to follow up on that's probably a good place to start.

I can't comment on how best to pay for it without knwoing your circumstances.

Yes, I agree, there's absolutely no reason I can think of why suppliers couldn't do this if they wanted to. But the plain simple fact, however unpalatable, is that is not what they are currently doing (with the exception of Octopus Snug and possibly others?). I'm describing how it is, you're describing how it could/should be.

The waste comes from the heat that leaks out during the day, the poor output controls and limitations around adjusting the input load through the seasons. Not just my opinion - all fairly well documented by numerous owners of old-style storage heaters over many years.

Please, please, please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong in making a stand on this. What I'm saying is that making that stand is likely to continue to be hard work, and if the problem you want to solve is having a nice warm house without it costing a fortune and constant hassle you do have the option of changing tack and finding a different way to solve that problem. Not necessarily any easier in the short term but a solution that moves your heating system to the future rather than continually trying to pull the industry back to the past could well be a better option in the long term.

You really do have choices.

mmmmikey

Rosie1001 said:

“ The industry generally is moving away from the type of system you have. There is a very real risk that you get over the current hurdle with EDF only to come up against a similar hurdle with your next supplier, which is what I mean when I say you are swimming against the tide. That's not intended to be a judgement, just a realistic description of where things are at today. The industry is pulling in one direction and you are trying to pull them in another. If you successfully get the industry to change direction (by complaing to your MP and so on) you may get them to change. But that's a fairly big "if" IMHO.” 

***********************************************

Me and nearly one million customers who are coming from RTS metering !!!! 

A lot of those customers are on Economy 7 - the issue you have as I understand it is the discontinuation of Economy 10, not the discontinuation of RTS? Note that many of the customers on E7 have exactly the same problem that you have where the storage heaters don't have enough heat stored to keep the house warm in the evening, and solve that problem by using supplementary heating. This is one of the options available to you.

Rosie1001

mmmmikey said:Rosie1001 said:

“ The industry generally is moving away from the type of system you have. There is a very real risk that you get over the current hurdle with EDF only to come up against a similar hurdle with your next supplier, which is what I mean when I say you are swimming against the tide. That's not intended to be a judgement, just a realistic description of where things are at today. The industry is pulling in one direction and you are trying to pull them in another. If you successfully get the industry to change direction (by complaing to your MP and so on) you may get them to change. But that's a fairly big "if" IMHO.” 

***********************************************

Me and nearly one million customers who are coming from RTS metering !!!! 

A lot of those customers are on Economy 7 - the issue you have as I understand it is the discontinuation of Economy 10, not the discontinuation of RTS? Note that many of the customers on E7 have exactly the same problem that you have where the storage heaters don't have enough heat stored to keep the house warm in the evening, and solve that problem by using supplementary heating. This is one of the options available to you.

Sorry you are incorrect, a lot are on THTC tariffs and mostly in the north east of uk and Scotland 

mmmmikey

Rosie1001 said:

mmmmikey said:Rosie1001 said:

“ The industry generally is moving away from the type of system you have. There is a very real risk that you get over the current hurdle with EDF only to come up against a similar hurdle with your next supplier, which is what I mean when I say you are swimming against the tide. That's not intended to be a judgement, just a realistic description of where things are at today. The industry is pulling in one direction and you are trying to pull them in another. If you successfully get the industry to change direction (by complaing to your MP and so on) you may get them to change. But that's a fairly big "if" IMHO.” 

***********************************************

Me and nearly one million customers who are coming from RTS metering !!!! 

A lot of those customers are on Economy 7 - the issue you have as I understand it is the discontinuation of Economy 10, not the discontinuation of RTS? Note that many of the customers on E7 have exactly the same problem that you have where the storage heaters don't have enough heat stored to keep the house warm in the evening, and solve that problem by using supplementary heating. This is one of the options available to you.

Sorry you are incorrect, a lot are on THTC tariffs and mostly in the north east of uk and Scotland 

A lot of customers are on E7 and a lot are on THTC tariffs can both be true. 

There's really not much point in continuing this discussion if you're just going to shoot everything down. That said, I can understand why, I'd have gone nuts trying to sort this out a long time ago and I admire your principled stand and preseverance.

I wish you well in your efforts to find a solution and hope that I am proved wrong about ongoing hassles

Good luck, Mike

QrizB

mmmmikey said:
A lot of those customers are on Economy 7 - the issue you have as I understand it is the discontinuation of Economy 10, not the discontinuation of RTS?

Rosie I hope you don't mind me explaining the history for mmmmikey.

She was originally on an unusual RTS tariff that gave her five hours overnight plus a two hour afternoon boost.

She feels that she will still need her afternoon boost in order to keep her house warm into the evening, hence her reluctance to accept E7 and her interest in E10.

From the specs of her storage heaters it seems (to me) likely that they should be adequate even without the afternoon boost, and the savings in E7 (which has a cheaper off-peak than E10) would allow top-up heating at peak rate in the depths of winter if necessary. But it's Rosie's house and her choice,, and we can only provide information and encouragement.

mmmmikey

QrizB said:

mmmmikey said:
A lot of those customers are on Economy 7 - the issue you have as I understand it is the discontinuation of Economy 10, not the discontinuation of RTS?

Rosie I hope you don't mind me explaining the history for mmmmikey.

She was originally on an unusual RTS tariff that gave her five hours overnight plus a two hour afternoon boost.

She feels that she will still need her afternoon boost in order to keep her house warm into the evening, hence her reluctance to accept E7 and her interest in E10.

From the specs of her storage heaters it seems (to me) likely that they should be adequate even without the afternoon boost, and the savings in E7 (which has a cheaper off-peak than E10) would allow top-up heating at peak rate in the depths of winter if necessary. But it's Rosie's house and her choice,, and we can only provide information and encouragement.

Thanks. 

I absolutely agree that it's Rosie's house and her choice. 

I was really just trying to establish whether the time was right to take another look at other options, given that this thread is now on page 33 and Rosie had said how exasperated she is.

I'm also mindful of the fact that in her previous thread Rosie thought she had resolved this (hence the title of this thread) and I just wanted to flag up there is a risk that Rosie will find herself in the same position in the future and needing to start a "here I go again - again" thread.

From her responses I think it's pretty clear that Rosie is still set on keeping her current heaters for as long as possible, which is fine of course, so I'll duck out of the conversation.....

Scot_39

QrizB said:

mmmmikey said:
A lot of those customers are on Economy 7 - the issue you have as I understand it is the discontinuation of Economy 10, not the discontinuation of RTS?

Rosie I hope you don't mind me explaining the history for mmmmikey.

She was originally on an unusual RTS tariff that gave her five hours overnight plus a two hour afternoon boost.

She feels that she will still need her afternoon boost in order to keep her house warm into the evening, hence her reluctance to accept E7 and her interest in E10.

From the specs of her storage heaters it seems (to me) likely that they should be adequate even without the afternoon boost, and the savings in E7 (which has a cheaper off-peak than E10) would allow top-up heating at peak rate in the depths of winter if necessary. But it's Rosie's house and her choice,, and we can only provide information and encouragement.

Except with EDF the off peak rates at least in the EM region were the same for e7 and e10  - and it was the peak they put the 10hr vs 7 hr premium on.

In fact I think that's true for the NE as have commented in this or another @Rosie1001 thread

So with her 80% off peak the savings less than others e7 vs e10.

The opposite of EOn Next who as you say do load the off peak c4p.

Rosie1001

QrizB said:

mmmmikey said:
A lot of those customers are on Economy 7 - the issue you have as I understand it is the discontinuation of Economy 10, not the discontinuation of RTS?

Rosie I hope you don't mind me explaining the history for mmmmikey.

She was originally on an unusual RTS tariff that gave her five hours overnight plus a two hour afternoon boost.

She feels that she will still need her afternoon boost in order to keep her house warm into the evening, hence her reluctance to accept E7 and her interest in E10.

From the specs of her storage heaters it seems (to me) likely that they should be adequate even without the afternoon boost, and the savings in E7 (which has a cheaper off-peak than E10) would allow top-up heating at peak rate in the depths of winter if necessary. But it's Rosie's house and her choice,, and we can only provide information and encouragement.

I don't mind at all .. I am so worn down by all this as you know.. I know people are trying to help and I do really appreciate everyone’s response given to me x