Here I go again ….

debitcardmayhem

Perhaps the answer could be in the hands of the smart meter, i.e. the meter reports its own switching times along with its daily data when polled, the supplier works the charges from that.Seems logical but hey who knows …. 🤪

Swipe

Scot_39 said:

Its not an overrun though for conventional register based TOU tariffs - it's a deliberate design feature.

To stop 100,000s if not millions of homes in a region - switching large heating loads at the same time in a given grid supply / DNO regional timing block.

And so avoid the corresponsing voltage and frequency spikes that would accompany it if did.

Think of the sort of kettle surges after a major TV event - only thats typically 3kW - that we use the likes of Dinorwigs fast spin up generation for  - whereas even in my small all electric home - my ALCS switches 10kW+.

Considering the small number of households in a region on Snug, it's a pity that the ACLS offset variance timings can't be overridden or changed to match, or at least set very close, to the TOU start / stop tariff times.

Scot_39

I had wondered about asking the same.

ALCS timings are not up to suppliers though - well not traditionally.

But I dont really see the sort of 7m and 9m numbers here as a big problem - compared to the cost of alternatives.

Anything perhaps over Octopus's 15m guideline say could be worth a go - but anything inside - well they are covered.

Scot_39

mmmmikey said:

It is clearly the intention to phase out legacy TOU / complex metering tariffs like E10 in favour of smart TOU tariffs. That has been fairly obvious for a few years and now stated explicitly by EDF (and possibly other suppliers?) The risk is that any continuation of E10 etc. could end up being just a short term stay-of-execution rather than a long term change. It is quite possible that E10 users will find themselves in exactly the same situation in another 3 months time. 

There is nothing to stop anyone who objects to this complaining. This doesn't have to be a done deal and could be changed. But it is equally possible that these tariffs will be stopped soon and it seems unlikely to me that electricity suppliers will be compelled to support legacy metering systems indefinitely.

If that does happen it would arguably be much better to get ahead of the game and switch to something different now in the summer months (i.e. outside the heating season) to allow plenty of time to get things sorted. Anyone hanging on to the very last minute to change runs the risk of that happening at the worst possible time, and needs to consider that risk carefully.

Something else to consider is that there are many more heating options available now than there were 30 or 40 years ago when many of these legacy heating systems were installed and the new systems are often less wasteful, easier to control and cheaper to run. There are also some straightforward options for just updating the controls to allow different smart tariffs to be used and options around phasing the replacement so the cost doesn't need to be borne in one go. There have been schemes in the past for those on low incomes to replace againg storage heaters at no cost to themselves, removing the need for E10, and I'm not sure if those schemes are still available.

The irony is that E10 for instance is in many respects no different to say Cosy and other modern TOU registers.

Many E10 users would by happy to see some variation in the timings to reflect the same modern market dynamics.  But still have ore than one heat charge per day.

If say Octopus would set ALCS timings to match Cosy's 50% below day rate - 4:00 - 7:00, 13:00 - 16:00, and 22:00 - 00:00 many would happily jump on board. 

Just as I suspect they expect people to set the programmabe timers on their ASHP / boilers to benefit from it.

This thread from someone who only had 2 hr boost mid day on RTS and will lose 3 aft +2 even if forced back onto E7 from E10.

Thats of course only E8 not E10 - but Id rather that than say my 12:00 - 5am overnight window.  Have little interest in my heaters being hottest at 5am. As seldom up then.

And comes with the caveat of the 4-7pm peak at 51% above day rate to be avoided (On E10 many do so anyway to avoid peak rate - I wait until 8pm/9pm in summer for some hot meal cooking or washing machine type uses)

They just dont have the tech know how, the money or if renting the ability to do such modifications by themselves.

Rosie1001

Morning 

I was up last night and checked the off peak rates going up on my 9.09pm till 11.09 pm period 

the same this morning , so it looks like I’ve got my E10 back and it’s all working correctly this time 

Snug … while cheaper would be a more complicated for me as I leave my heaters on in winter , I never turn the wall switch off , I just wouldn’t remember to put it back on etc 

it might be on option one day if I lose my E 10 fir whatever reason , who knows what will happen in the future , but for me E10 works well for me and it’s still affordable, that’s the main thing 

thank you everyone once again , your input and knowledge is invaluable 😀

QrizB

Rosie1001 said:

 Snug … while cheaper would be a more complicated for me as I leave my heaters on in winter , I never turn the wall switch off , I just wouldn’t remember to put it back on etc

You don't need to touch the wall switch with Snug. And it could save you £450 a year.

Edit: actually, the Snug day rate is cheaper than E10 too. That's another £150-ish it will save. So £600 total.

Rosie1001

QrizB said:

Rosie1001 said:

 Snug … while cheaper would be a more complicated for me as I leave my heaters on in winter , I never turn the wall switch off , I just wouldn’t remember to put it back on etc

You don't need to touch the wall switch with Snug. And it could save you £450 a year.

Edit: actually, the Snug day rate is cheaper than E10 too. That's another £150-ish it will save. So £600 total.

That’s a lot of money difference 

it was just with the meter not controlling the SH I was concerned by the extra costings …

I have seen how you worked it out ,that all went straight over my head …. 

My newer heater in my bedroom probably won’t need to be on full power as well as it’s much better insulated and was actually too hot when it was used last …

living room heater will need to stay on full everyday in the colder months 

Scot_39

t was just with the meter not controlling the SH I was concerned by the extra costings …

Snug does control your heaters.  What makes you think it doesn't ?

Its the only reason it exists.  Unlike their other tou it specifically uses dynamic alcs control synced as well as can be to their 1/2 hrly billing.

And the dynamic bit allows Octopus to choose cheaper wholesale slots to keep the 9p down.  For those who select less than 6 hrs overnight in particular.  And Its even been shown to give 7 or more hours overnight rather than just 6 guaranteed in the past at 9p.

Yes that alcs response sync problem might mean your paying more than 9p - but still less than 14.xp(*) and of course paying 31p vs 38p(*) on normal use, behind QRizB figures (i guess using the 9000kWh off peak etc in your past quotes  - maybe £450 a little optimistic given c12p for the hour in afternoon.).

It doesn't mean you actually have to switch on off at wall twice per day.  That's just to keep an exact 9p.  Rather than c9.5p overnight etc assuming heaters charging in last 9m.  

(*) still worried those are old e10 June rates  your regional multirate av should be 1.2p lower from yesterday.

Are you really sure your back on e10 times and rates.

And thats not just the supplier  swap transitional arrangements.

Have they actually recinded in writing / email the letter saying your e10 ends yesterday July 1st ?  

Rosie1001

I meant that with snug that the acls and tariff are not the same 

I am definitely on E10 timings , I’ve checked the actual meter 

This was emailed to me yesterday, I have emailed back but no one replies ! 

I’ve send 4 emails now and no response 

Scot_39

Whilst you dont have to be on e10 times to make it possible to bill you, it makes it easier to bill you correctly during swap grace period.

Otherwise they would have to use 48 daily 1/2 hourly slots for the period.

Its maybe my paranoia, but I dont like the fact they (EDF)  aren't confirming the peak and off peak times.

I get notice on bills re fixes and cheaper deals from EOn NEXT regularly - NONE are E10.  Some e7, some even single rate.  And the e7 are based on current e10 off peak peak readings that wouldn't be easily maintained on e7 for space heating.