Have we ever been in a worse car buying era I don't know where to turn next.

Hoenir

born_again said:

Hoenir said:

Let's be factually correct. Governments spend taxpayers money. Borrowed money needs to be repaid along with the interest in servicing the debt. Will EV users feel inclined to put their hands in their pockets to fund this. In order that recharging on the move across the entire country becomes far easier. 

Inherent danger is that as the global demand for copper increases. So will it's price. Electrification is going to face many challenges along the way. 

Government has nothing to do with charging facilities. More than enough to travel around the country already. 

To meet the targets set. It would require over over 1,000 public chargers to be installed every week for the next 5 years. Like the housebuilding targets. Doomed to failure unfortunately. 

Hoenir

WellKnownSid said:

 I can never understand the logic of headlines saying "EVs are too expensive" alongside headlines of "EVs depreciate too much".  Both cannot be true given that the majority of the motoring public will buy second hand anyway.

Majority of new cars are financed in some way. Not bought outright for cash. If new vehicles depreciate rapidly then this will be reflected in the monthly cost to the end user. The finance companies are going to shoulder the loss. They are probably getting burnt as it is with the higher end vehicles that are now coming to the end of their terms.  To meet second hand demand there has to be a flow of new vehicles.  EV's only account for a low % of vehicles on the road.

letom

Hoenir said:

born_again said:

Hoenir said:

Let's be factually correct. Governments spend taxpayers money. Borrowed money needs to be repaid along with the interest in servicing the debt. Will EV users feel inclined to put their hands in their pockets to fund this. In order that recharging on the move across the entire country becomes far easier. 

Inherent danger is that as the global demand for copper increases. So will it's price. Electrification is going to face many challenges along the way. 

Government has nothing to do with charging facilities. More than enough to travel around the country already. 

To meet the targets set. It would require over over 1,000 public chargers to be installed every week for the next 5 years. Like the housebuilding targets. Doomed to failure unfortunately. 

Everyone gets a bad reputation for the lack of infrastructure but it's not really the government's or the car companies fault. The economics of owning EV charging stations is quite poor. People complain about the cost of public charging but it has to be that price to recoup the significant upfront cost. The throughput of 1 EV charger per hour is something like 1-1.2 vehicles Vs a petrol pump of say 10-12 cars, if each punter is paying on average £60 that's £600+ Vs an EV stall of £40-50 per hour. Therefore you need 10x the amount of space to get the same throughput of cars, though having more land ends up costing money too. So before you blame everyone for bad infrastructure bear in mind that it is economically a lot trickier to make EV charging work let alone be profitable so don't expect an infrastructure boom.

henry24

jeffuk said:

mgfvvc said:

subjecttocontract said:
I didn't think we had electric commercial vehicles with sufficient range for everyone ?

Most commercial vehicles don't travel that far, so EVs may be suitable for the majority, if not everyone,

I think the poster is referring to HGVs no?

How does the range of an electric HGV compare to a diesel HGV?

The average range of the electric trucks we reviewed is 220 km, far lower than that of a diesel HGV. A typical diesel HGV can travel over 1,200 km on a full tank of diesel. This long-range, combined with a more established network of refuelling stations, is one why diesel vehicles have dominated the freight industry and it has been challenging for Electric trucks to HGVs.

The Electric HGV / Lorry Guide 2024 | Electric Car Guide

The other thing with HGVs is that thousands are parked up in laybys overnight how will they charge up

Car_54

letom said:

mgfvvc said:

letom said:

Ultimately we are being pushed towards an inferior product, it's best to just be honest about this

Ultimately this is nonsense.

Battery electric vehicles are superior in most respects, but everyone obsesses about range, charging times and exaggerated battery degradation issues.

For most people the range of an EV is sufficient for 95% of journeys. The two real problems are charging infrastructure for those without easy access to a driveway or travelling more than 200 miles in a day and manufacturers over complicating EVs instead of producing simple affordable EVs.

The point my post was making is EVs are inferior to ICE, not that they are bad products, there's a difference. Your post just proves the point, ICE works for 100% of journeys not just 95%. Again my point is the fundamental thing a car needs to do is for the car to get you from A to B. If you have an EV, whether you like it or not, you have to consider whether it can get you from A to B - this is not a concern with ICE mostly because within 5 mins you have 500+ miles. This core weakness of an EV is why people aren't switching to EVs - it logical, if it was better people would move to it, we're in the age of information

Indeed. And misinformation, as this thread demonstrates.

henry24

motorguy said:

henry24 said:

They need to be better so people will buy them like they do ICE cars without up to 40% discount and government help, it needs to be a level playing field 

No they dont.

The issue is on paper they are more expensive to buy new.  Combined with the other reasons, people are unsure.

I say "on paper", as once you get in to the PCP or leasing deals - on which nearly all new cars are bought - they're no more expensive for the monthlies as their ICE equivalents.

I've just been looking at leasing deals for a mini cooper I picked this one as it was the easiest for me to compare.  The basic petrol lease over four years and 15000 miles per year costs £15048 but the EV one is £23800 or £8751 more. When you have something losing money like a EV the leasing companies have to charge more

Mildly_Miffed

motorguy said:

Choice here in N. Ireland is extremely limited also.

No more limited than anywhere else in the country.

The range of new cars available is identical.

Travel to view/collect a used car might not be quite so straightforward, but it's still eminently possible.

There's no hassle with import or registration. In fact, if you wanted to import from anywhere else in Europe, it's easier.

WellKnownSid

henry24 said:

motorguy said:

henry24 said:

They need to be better so people will buy them like they do ICE cars without up to 40% discount and government help, it needs to be a level playing field 

No they dont.

The issue is on paper they are more expensive to buy new.  Combined with the other reasons, people are unsure.

I say "on paper", as once you get in to the PCP or leasing deals - on which nearly all new cars are bought - they're no more expensive for the monthlies as their ICE equivalents.

I've just been looking at leasing deals for a mini cooper I picked this one as it was the easiest for me to compare.  The basic petrol lease over four years and 15000 miles per year costs £15048 but the EV one is £23800 or £8751 more. When you have something losing money like a EV the leasing companies have to charge more

I would definitely try both cars first - the 230kW Countryman is brutal off the line.  My company has bought in a salary sacrifice company car scheme which means a 45% saving off the bat so it's at the top of my list

born_again

jeffuk said:

mgfvvc said:

subjecttocontract said:
I didn't think we had electric commercial vehicles with sufficient range for everyone ?

Most commercial vehicles don't travel that far, so EVs may be suitable for the majority, if not everyone,

I think the poster is referring to HGVs no?

How does the range of an electric HGV compare to a diesel HGV?

The average range of the electric trucks we reviewed is 220 km, far lower than that of a diesel HGV. A typical diesel HGV can travel over 1,200 km on a full tank of diesel. This long-range, combined with a more established network of refuelling stations, is one why diesel vehicles have dominated the freight industry and it has been challenging for Electric trucks to HGVs.

The Electric HGV / Lorry Guide 2024 | Electric Car Guide

HGV range is limited by driving hours. Not the amount of fuel in the tank.

born_again

History is littered with changes of modes of transport.
Never has so much polarized opinion by groups that have never tried other means got to the point that total FUD is posted..