Have we ever been in a worse car buying era I don't know where to turn next.

born_again

Northern_Wanderer said:

There appears to be issues with trading in an EV. As in, people are finding that some car dealers don't want them. Since the battery has a relatively short lifespan and the cost to replace it will be in the thousands, no dealer will want to be taking the hit on having to replace a battery on a used EV.....just as a new owner wouldn't want to either, or even an owner that's had it from new.... But perhaps this is a form of built in obsolescense? Which kind of proves that net zero is Greenwashing.

Source?

Plenty of data that says otherwise.

WellKnownSid

Hoenir said:

WellKnownSid said:

Hoenir said:

motorguy said:

Hoenir said:

motorguy said:

WellKnownSid said:

motorguy said:

henry24 said:

But isn't that the problem the government are stopping people from driving ICE cars and forcing them into EVs they don't want 

No.

Exactly as booner said - from 2035 (so ten years from now) new ICE cars will be banned.  No one is stopping anyone driving ICE cars after that point, just that you wont be able to buy a brand new one.

Indeed.  Given the average life of a car is 16 years, those that want to can still be happily chugging around in a fossil car until at least 2051.  By which time petrol will only be available in cartons from a hardware store at £95 a litre, and you probably won't be allowed to drive one in any town or city due to emissions, noise, etc, but hey-ho.

Yes, we'll see then how many of these supposed nay saying ICE die hards can suddenly make EVs work for them.

Why is Tesla so reluctant to launch a "people's" car?  Damage it's profit margins?  Blow away the mystic that surrounds the brand making it a must have accessory for the rich. 

Like any car brand they have a target market.

Lets be honest though, they're not going to compete with the chinese on cheap EVs.  Thats where your "peoples car" comes in to play.

Also whats the average PCP and fuel cost of a new car these days?  I'd wager its an easy £350 a month plus deposit and maybe £200 a month on fuel, so £550 a month.  Tesla will lease you a brand new Tesla Model £300 for £500 a month.

£300 to lease a new Tesla ? No chance. Perhaps for a 4/5 year old ex company car. That's been treated like a F1 car. Also will require a hefty depost of at least £3k. With an annual mileage restriction. 

What was being said was that you can lease a Tesla M3 for £500 a month and save £200 a month on fuel so it's really costing £300 a month.

Same as our car.  The Daily Mail sponsored the depreciation, the Scottish Government are paying the interest and also funded the EVSE, EON are essentially paying for the capital cost of the car.  We'll pay £190 a year when we renew the road tax (sic) in 2026 but it's small beans in comparison.

Yes, that wheeze will be ironed out by successive governments by which time we'll be on our second or third EV.

Which still totally ignores the insurance issue.  

No one has yet come up with a solution to replacing fuel duty either. 
 

What is the insurance issue?

Out of curiosity I just did a quote for a nearly new Tesla from AutoTrader - it was £480 a year.  Double the price of the Zoe but then it does 0-60 in 5 seconds and the Zoe doesn't 

When someone does eventually one day come up with a solution to replacing fuel duty, and it eventually one day gets implemented, I could be on my 9th EV...  Yes the music will stop one day... of course it will... one day.  Eventually.

Emmia

Hoenir said:

WellKnownSid said:

Hoenir said:

motorguy said:

Hoenir said:

motorguy said:

WellKnownSid said:

motorguy said:

henry24 said:

But isn't that the problem the government are stopping people from driving ICE cars and forcing them into EVs they don't want 

No.

Exactly as booner said - from 2035 (so ten years from now) new ICE cars will be banned.  No one is stopping anyone driving ICE cars after that point, just that you wont be able to buy a brand new one.

Indeed.  Given the average life of a car is 16 years, those that want to can still be happily chugging around in a fossil car until at least 2051.  By which time petrol will only be available in cartons from a hardware store at £95 a litre, and you probably won't be allowed to drive one in any town or city due to emissions, noise, etc, but hey-ho.

Yes, we'll see then how many of these supposed nay saying ICE die hards can suddenly make EVs work for them.

Why is Tesla so reluctant to launch a "people's" car?  Damage it's profit margins?  Blow away the mystic that surrounds the brand making it a must have accessory for the rich. 

Like any car brand they have a target market.

Lets be honest though, they're not going to compete with the chinese on cheap EVs.  Thats where your "peoples car" comes in to play.

Also whats the average PCP and fuel cost of a new car these days?  I'd wager its an easy £350 a month plus deposit and maybe £200 a month on fuel, so £550 a month.  Tesla will lease you a brand new Tesla Model £300 for £500 a month.

£300 to lease a new Tesla ? No chance. Perhaps for a 4/5 year old ex company car. That's been treated like a F1 car. Also will require a hefty depost of at least £3k. With an annual mileage restriction. 

What was being said was that you can lease a Tesla M3 for £500 a month and save £200 a month on fuel so it's really costing £300 a month.

Same as our car.  The Daily Mail sponsored the depreciation, the Scottish Government are paying the interest and also funded the EVSE, EON are essentially paying for the capital cost of the car.  We'll pay £190 a year when we renew the road tax (sic) in 2026 but it's small beans in comparison.

Yes, that wheeze will be ironed out by successive governments by which time we'll be on our second or third EV.

Which still totally ignores the insurance issue.  

No one has yet come up with a solution to replacing fuel duty either. 
 

Black boxes and pay per mile would seem the obvious approaches. 

Barkin

born_again said:

Barkin said:

henry24 said:

Just been reading though some posts from the last couple of days and one I find hard to believe, the poster says that there is less than 8000 petrol/diesel pumps compared to 10x or 80000 ev charges. Is this correct?

No!

According to statista there are some 8300+ filling stations in the UK.

I suspect that most of them have more than one pump... 

In 2023 

[...] 

Kinda misses my point.

There's a reason why I replied to and quoted the post that I did, rather than yours...  😊

henry24

One quote says how many places sell fuel for ice cars and not how many pumps while the other is saying how many charging points there is, this doesn't seem a equal comparison 

Petriix

Bonniepurple said:

And yes, I know technology has moved on and batteries are better, but I think most local folk had a giggle a few years ago when the local police force discovered that their then brand new, state of the art EV objected to headlights, blue lights, sirens AND windscreen wipers being used at the sand time and ran out of battery 😀

It's this kind of nonsense that I object to. The combination of ancillary items that you've listed use a tiny amount of power compared to moving the vehicle so it's utterly ridiculous to suggest that they caused the battery to 'run out'. Headlight bulbs are 60W each, wipers are usually under 50W... suppose everything added up to an unlikely 500W, that's 100 hours for a 50kWh battery. In comparison the main motor is more like 150kW so around 20 minutes of maximum power to drain the battery. Of course that's impossible too in the real world hence typically getting 3-4 miles per kWh. 

WellKnownSid

Petriix said:

Bonniepurple said:

And yes, I know technology has moved on and batteries are better, but I think most local folk had a giggle a few years ago when the local police force discovered that their then brand new, state of the art EV objected to headlights, blue lights, sirens AND windscreen wipers being used at the sand time and ran out of battery 😀

It's this kind of nonsense that I object to. The combination of ancillary items that you've listed use a tiny amount of power compared to moving the vehicle so it's utterly ridiculous to suggest that they caused the battery to 'run out'. Headlight bulbs are 60W each, wipers are usually under 50W... suppose everything added up to an unlikely 500W, that's 100 hours for a 50kWh battery. In comparison the main motor is more like 150kW so around 20 minutes of maximum power to drain the battery. Of course that's impossible too in the real world hence typically getting 3-4 miles per kWh. 

Yes, it's misleading at best.  We all know that there are two batteries in electric vehicles and the poster is obviously talking about the 12 volt auxiliary battery, but attempts to imply 'it must be that really expensive traction battery that failed ner ner ner ner ner'.

Even my hybrid car seems to have the world's smallest 12 volt battery - less than half the physical size and capacity of the one we used to have in our 1.3 Fiesta.  It's what comes of not having to put out hundreds of amps to start an internal combustion engine.

[Deleted User]

born_again said:

[Deleted User] said:

born_again said:

TooManyPoints said:

I wouldn't trust a newspaper to review a video game in the same way I wouldn't trust them to review a car, I would go to the relevant publication to get a balanced opinion. 

But newspapers were not specifically mentioned. I agree that one has to be a little circumspect when reading them, especially when making a decision to part with a sizeable sum of dosh, But Spies only mentioned  "the media" which I assume would include your relevant publication. If by "the media" Spies meant only publications whose views he did not agree with, he should have said so.

Newspapers are not going to run headlines such as "I took delivery of my new EV and I am absolutely delighted with it." It doesn't sell papers. They only want "man bites dog" stories.

There is no doubt that at some point (though I do not think it will be as soon as some believe) it will no longer be possible to buy an  IC car. Many people do not like being told what they can and cannot buy when they can see no point in making such a restriction. That's why papers headline stories such as "Mum with two kids in her EV runs out of juice on the busy M6". It grabs people's attention far more than "Man drives from Birmingham to Manchester in his EV with no problems whatsoever."

Which is just like this story 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/electric-car-motorway-driver-nathan-owen-jaguar-ipace-b1143726.html

Which ended with

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/driver-arrested-after-runaway-electric-car-stopped-by-police

A driver caught out lying to try & save their skin

Media had a field day about it, but next to no coverage when the truth outed in the main stream media. 🤷‍♀️

I am not sure that I understand. He called 999, 8 police cars boxed him in causing damage. What was in it for him? 

He knew they had clocked him speeding before he rung in.. So was looking for a out 😒

I like how cynical you are! It doesnt make sense though if he has repprtrd himself to police. Not much of an out if your car gets damaged. 

I am not surprised he was arrested as such an explanation couldnt be accepted at face value but he's been released under investigation and if hes not charged then it might be genuine. When I searched Google there was some article about a big brother winner with a similar issue?

Petriix

WellKnownSid said:

Petriix said:

Bonniepurple said:

And yes, I know technology has moved on and batteries are better, but I think most local folk had a giggle a few years ago when the local police force discovered that their then brand new, state of the art EV objected to headlights, blue lights, sirens AND windscreen wipers being used at the sand time and ran out of battery 😀

It's this kind of nonsense that I object to. The combination of ancillary items that you've listed use a tiny amount of power compared to moving the vehicle so it's utterly ridiculous to suggest that they caused the battery to 'run out'. Headlight bulbs are 60W each, wipers are usually under 50W... suppose everything added up to an unlikely 500W, that's 100 hours for a 50kWh battery. In comparison the main motor is more like 150kW so around 20 minutes of maximum power to drain the battery. Of course that's impossible too in the real world hence typically getting 3-4 miles per kWh. 

Yes, it's misleading at best.  We all know that there are two batteries in electric vehicles and the poster is obviously talking about the 12 volt auxiliary battery, but attempts to imply 'it must be that really expensive traction battery that failed ner ner ner ner ner'.

Even my hybrid car seems to have the world's smallest 12 volt battery - less than half the physical size and capacity of the one we used to have in our 1.3 Fiesta.  It's what comes of not having to put out hundreds of amps to start an internal combustion engine.

Even that doesn't make sense though. An EV doesn't need a big 12v battery because, when it's switched on, it has a high powered DC-DC converter running. Only if you naively turn it off while running the ancillary systems will you flatten the 12v battery. I'm sorry, but the whole anecdote is just made up, anti-EV FUD. It didn't happen. 

WellKnownSid

Petriix said:

WellKnownSid said:

Petriix said:

Bonniepurple said:

And yes, I know technology has moved on and batteries are better, but I think most local folk had a giggle a few years ago when the local police force discovered that their then brand new, state of the art EV objected to headlights, blue lights, sirens AND windscreen wipers being used at the sand time and ran out of battery 😀

It's this kind of nonsense that I object to. The combination of ancillary items that you've listed use a tiny amount of power compared to moving the vehicle so it's utterly ridiculous to suggest that they caused the battery to 'run out'. Headlight bulbs are 60W each, wipers are usually under 50W... suppose everything added up to an unlikely 500W, that's 100 hours for a 50kWh battery. In comparison the main motor is more like 150kW so around 20 minutes of maximum power to drain the battery. Of course that's impossible too in the real world hence typically getting 3-4 miles per kWh. 

Yes, it's misleading at best.  We all know that there are two batteries in electric vehicles and the poster is obviously talking about the 12 volt auxiliary battery, but attempts to imply 'it must be that really expensive traction battery that failed ner ner ner ner ner'.

Even my hybrid car seems to have the world's smallest 12 volt battery - less than half the physical size and capacity of the one we used to have in our 1.3 Fiesta.  It's what comes of not having to put out hundreds of amps to start an internal combustion engine.

I'm sorry, but the whole anecdote is just made up, anti-EV FUD. It didn't happen. 

But isn’t that human nature?

A 19 year old drug addict can call up some old biddy from a boiler room in Spain and get them to hand over their life savings.

On here you can tell people how much money you can save with an EV and all you get is:

1. “Mark my words, pay per mile road charging is coming”
2. “Immoral!! Won’t somebody think of the people who can’t charge at home”
3. “SCAM!  You Scammer!”